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Double Bass Thumb position
- Thread starter bassmanbrent
- Start date
Ah crap. Looks like the dreaded auto correct messed with the title of this thread before I noticed. Is there a way to change it to ‘thumb position’?
Weird! It def said ‘thumb positioning’ this morning…
And thanks! She’s a beautiful girl inside and out.
Hi Brent,
There are a few elements to the overall sound that contribute to how notes resonate in that register. And while I believe that past D or Eb in that range of the bass the amount of sustain is limited, there are things you can do to improve it.
First thing that comes to mind is the type of strings you’re using. A brighter jazz-oriented string will launch you in the right direction. Second thing is your setup. Too low and the fingerboard will actually choke the sound, limiting the amount of room for the strings to vibrate. Too high and it becomes difficult to hold the notes down to get the long resonant tone you’re striving for. There is some experimentation involved till you hit that sweet spot.
Third is the bass itself. Some basses really sing in the lower register but don’t speak as well higher up and others it’s the opposite. Some are great throughout the whole range of the instrument. The placement of the sound post can sometimes have an effect on that. (Another thing you might experiment with).
Finally, the sound you produce with your hands is a big deal. Trying to dig in and force the sound out that way is actually counterproductive to achieving the sustained notes you’re looking for. Conversely, going for some feathery electric bass type of approach doesn’t move enough air with the string to get it to sing. Again, experimenting with how you pluck and also finger the notes - vibrato, sliding into the note from above or below, grace notes, etc. - will reveal a lot. I’ve found that emulating or striving for a vocal quality to the melodies you play in the upper register can help a great deal.
Hope this helps. Happy playing!
Thanks so much for your thoughts on all this. I guess I should have mentioned that I'm pretty aware of how string types can impact thumb position, and that there's a balance with string height and technique. The bass in question is pretty well optimized for thumb position playing, but it's an instrument that just doesn't have much to offer past Bb or so on the G string. Any other ideas beyond sound post placement? Does anyone know if creating or eliminating scoop in specific areas of the fingerboard might help? Cheers!
The bass is set up for pizz playing and has worn a variety of string types including Helicore Hybrid, Zyex lights, Pirastro Jazzers and Perpetuals. It's not an expensive bass, but punches way about it's price point in most areas except thumb position. Going from memory, the soundpost is in a pretty typical position (one sp width south of the bridge foot and in line with the middle of it, I think).
There isn't a whole lot can do for that specific range. Just make sure the post is fit well and the board is dressed correctly. Sometimes people put all the relief in the lower positions and the board flattens out in the upper register and the notes up there may buzz because of it. Its always best to get a good setup. New strings help too. Strings older than a year can sound dead up there.
This may not be what you're looking for but I found that really trying to develop a good pizz sustain in TP on the lower strings helped my sound on the D and G quite a bit. It made me more sensitive to note production across the board in the high register. Playing arco up there also if helpful for pizz if you bow much for practice. I believe that more confidence is built by getting comfortable playing notes you wouldn't necessarily use for soloing but can get a decent sound out of anyway. It can also get you less focused on the pluses or minuses of the instrument and more on what you're actually playing. It's surprising how the instrument can respond to an improvement in technique and concept.
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Thanks for your thoughts on this. I could be wrong, but I don’t feel that this is a technique issue. The bass sounds good up to Bb on the G string, then okay to C, but doesn’t have much going on higher than that. I’ve owned and played others that sound great a fourth or more above that. As mentioned by another member above, some basses just sing in thumb position and this is not one of those instruments. I’m just wondering if there’s a way to improve it.
If the fingerboard is not very rigid, it can easily absorb string vibration leading to a short pizz sustain.
Should not happen with a good ebony board, but if it is something softer (maybe only painted black) that can be a reason.
Thinner strings work better than thicker ones, so try a steel core string for better sustain.
Should not happen with a good ebony board, but if it is something softer (maybe only painted black) that can be a reason.
Thinner strings work better than thicker ones, so try a steel core string for better sustain.
The shorter the vibrating string length, the less sustain there will be. In my experience from the time that maximum sustain in the highest part of the FB was my goal, the only string that came close was Spirocore. Try a Weich or solo Gauge.
It's not a great quality FB, but it is ebony. And it's a little on the thin, flexible side. Interesting thought. Thanks.
The G is a Pirastro Perpetual at the moment, which is a thinner metal core string. I might have to try a spiro weich, as suggested by Salcott. I'll report back if I do.
Why not visit a luthier and get him to move the sound post slightly and see if that helps.
I found that sound post adjustment changed the response of both upper and lower register.
I found that sound post adjustment changed the response of both upper and lower register.
Practising thumb position with bow has helped me tremendously with sustain pizz, among other things. I believe that 'byproduct' of bowing - the slight changes of posture, along with really precisely built 'strenght chain' of all muscles used, make the difference. I remember I couldn't create a nice tone above high C, no matter what I tried. With bowing, it just comes on its own... in its time. My bass has a thick solid ebony board and is strung with Spiros.
I don't say that you can't perhaps help it with a good luthier work.
I don't say that you can't perhaps help it with a good luthier work.
You might also find that a luthier who works with Bass might have a supply of old strings; so you might get to try a few alternatives for free.
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- Jan 12, 2004
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- Owner, Stand Up Guy Basses (Repair/Sell/Buy upright basses)
This. When a FB gets too flexible (especially when it's at the very end, suspended in space like a diving board), you're chasing a moving target. The note is both 'avoiding you' and going out of tune at the same time.
I'd be willing to bet a new, high quality, thick ebony board would make a world of difference.
I wonder if it would work to add some kind reinforcement to the overhanging fingerboard instead of replacing it. Perhaps a carbon fiber rod or plate fastened underneath it. Seems a shame to discard an ebony fingerboard, but I suppose they could cut it up and make half a dozen violin fingerboards 
