Hello. been playing for about a year now, decided to learn how to play up in thumb position. i've decided i want to solo mostly up high from now on (Im a jazz player) so ive been pracitising hard up there. Problem is, i cant do more than about a solid 90 mins before the side of my thumb becomes so sore its unusable. it's fine the next day. any quick fixes for this? i tried putting super glue on it, but that didnt really work too well.
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Double Bass Thumb soreness!
- Thread starter Claude Bilé
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Fine the next day? Wow.
You have to build up a healthy thumb position callous, which in past experience can mean a week or two of playing on your tenderised thumb.
You have to build up a healthy thumb position callous, which in past experience can mean a week or two of playing on your tenderised thumb.
90 minutes is enough, surely? Just be patient.
String choice and height makes a really big difference to this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a great jazz string that is also nice in thumb position... but if you like the sound of Corelli tungstens, they're pretty nice to play on up high.
String choice and height makes a really big difference to this. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a great jazz string that is also nice in thumb position... but if you like the sound of Corelli tungstens, they're pretty nice to play on up high.
Claude Bilé;8477174 said:
Do you have gigs that you will be playing a solid 90 minutes in thumb position?
I think you will be fine for most gigs you do, don't worry about it, and keep practicing.
I don't want to hijack this topic but maybe this is related to your problem.
Exactly where on the thumb do you press the string down? I have had a teacher who pressed it down with the knuckle and some also press it down at the side along the nail (so more upwards).
I think most jazz players prefer the 'knuckle method' and classical players prefer to play more upward on the thumb. It might be a too general thing to say of course.
So where do you play on the thumb and why?
Exactly where on the thumb do you press the string down? I have had a teacher who pressed it down with the knuckle and some also press it down at the side along the nail (so more upwards).
I think most jazz players prefer the 'knuckle method' and classical players prefer to play more upward on the thumb. It might be a too general thing to say of course.
So where do you play on the thumb and why?
i dont care about gigs for now, i care about practicing up high so i can have the confidence to use thumb pos during gigs 
string height is pretty high, but thats how i get a good sound. everyone around here has it so low, and run through amps. i dont want that i try not to use amps.
Now to my actual position of my thumb. its probably about 2 millimetres below parellel to the bottom of my nail. if that makes sense. it just feels more comfortable there. Ive seen jazzers use the knuckle too, apparently this makes crossing strings easier. but i dont really see it, ive got strong enough fingers (i think) to play a note in thumb position without anchoring my thumb. ive built up a reasonable callous in this spot (as i said before, i can get in a good 90 mins of solid practice, which includes sliding around quite a bit), and dont really want to have to go through the tedious task of building up another callous. Where do you use your thumb?
string height is pretty high, but thats how i get a good sound. everyone around here has it so low, and run through amps. i dont want that i try not to use amps.
Now to my actual position of my thumb. its probably about 2 millimetres below parellel to the bottom of my nail. if that makes sense. it just feels more comfortable there. Ive seen jazzers use the knuckle too, apparently this makes crossing strings easier. but i dont really see it, ive got strong enough fingers (i think) to play a note in thumb position without anchoring my thumb. ive built up a reasonable callous in this spot (as i said before, i can get in a good 90 mins of solid practice, which includes sliding around quite a bit), and dont really want to have to go through the tedious task of building up another callous. Where do you use your thumb?
Claude Bilé;8477360 said:i dont care about gigs for now, i care about practicing up high so i can have the confidence to use thumb pos during gigs
string height is pretty high, but thats how i get a good sound. everyone around here has it so low, and run through amps. i dont want that i try not to use amps.
So, get used to the sore thumb.
Didn't you ever get sore fingers in your right hand? All this callous-building stuff takes time.
Regarding placement of thumb on the string, i've heard from many different teachers that it should be parallel with the bottom of your nail. I am a classical player, but it makes sense: the skin parallel to your knuckle is closer to a hard surface (bone), so its going to hurt more when you push it against it, compared to parallel to the bottom of your nail, where there's some breathing room, and the skin is softer. You will probably grow a thicker callous there, although at first it will hurt more.
Regarding placement of thumb on the string, i've heard from many different teachers that it should be parallel with the bottom of your nail. I am a classical player, but it makes sense: the skin parallel to your knuckle is closer to a hard surface (bone), so its going to hurt more when you push it against it, compared to parallel to the bottom of your nail, where there's some breathing room, and the skin is softer. You will probably grow a thicker callous there, although at first it will hurt more.
Claude Bilé;8477360 said:
High string action and a sound that is functional up in TP is not a very suitable combination IMO. In TP you will basically need an amp to help you in a performance situation.
What strings are you using?
If you really want to play in TP regularly I think you will need to consider some compromises. A big acoustic sound down low and an articulate sound, and reasonably easy to play action in TP? I wish.
I can play in thumb position fine with my action/strings. i get a good, loud sound. thankyou for all the responses, but i was just wondering if there was anything people use to cover their thumb while they were practicing so it didnt hurt as much (which is why i asked in here, not in the jazz forum, because i thought classical guys would spend much longer up here). band-aids and superglue doesnt work. i guess i should have specified that a bit more!
My practice today i tried it near the knuckle. i find it really uncomfortable, espcially if i am playing a semitone away from my thumb. i think i will stick to the parallel to nail placement. got about 2 hours in today, so i think my thumb is getting better.
My practice today i tried it near the knuckle. i find it really uncomfortable, espcially if i am playing a semitone away from my thumb. i think i will stick to the parallel to nail placement. got about 2 hours in today, so i think my thumb is getting better.
Dude, larry grenadier uses this setup, and his sound is fantastic. probably my favourite sounding bassist at the moment. was lucky enough to see him live last year with mehldau, and he had a mic in front of him running through a PA speaker. Huge action and he spends a lot of time up high. I saw him in a large tent, but i cant imagine him having to use amplification in a smaller setting (which is where i play mostly,)
If thats the sound you want to go for, knock yourself out then. My opinion is that it gets rather monotimbral. Whether that one timbre sounds great is all opinion, but I feel it becomes a limiting aspect. IMO IME of course.
You're asking this in orchestral technique. Usually what we do is strike a balance for maximum flexibility... and orchestral players are mostly after arco tone, not so much pizz, so we go for high mass, flexible strings at an intermediate height. I go for brighter tone than most orchestral players, hence the tungsten Corellis rather than Spiro Mittels. But then I play a lot of Bach.
I can get a fretless BG mwah out of my DB if I want it, all the way to the typical classical 'plunk' pizz, and a huge variety of arco tone. And yet the string height is only about 8mm on the G. Now, if I was doing an accoustic jazz gig, I'd wind that up a couple of mm, and take the hit to the thumb position playability... or perhaps just solo arco. But the point is, you've got to go for balance.
I can get a fretless BG mwah out of my DB if I want it, all the way to the typical classical 'plunk' pizz, and a huge variety of arco tone. And yet the string height is only about 8mm on the G. Now, if I was doing an accoustic jazz gig, I'd wind that up a couple of mm, and take the hit to the thumb position playability... or perhaps just solo arco. But the point is, you've got to go for balance.
haha!
do some serious thumb vomits. you'll get the most obnoxious tumor of a callous on your thumb and will be able to play as long as you want in TP and will drive the women crazy.
do some serious thumb vomits. you'll get the most obnoxious tumor of a callous on your thumb and will be able to play as long as you want in TP and will drive the women crazy.
A while back, I started practicing the 1st prelude from the bach cello suites very slowly on my old plywood bass with medium-ish string height and spiro mittels and that is basically responsible for my thumb callouses.
At the time I had not played in thumb position much and that piece calls for the thumb all over the place. I would practice it for a few days, get a blister, wait for it to heal, rinse and repeat. After a summer of that the skin toughed up and now I never have blisters or pain on the thumb, which is fortunate because I still have a lot of bach to learn!
At the time I had not played in thumb position much and that piece calls for the thumb all over the place. I would practice it for a few days, get a blister, wait for it to heal, rinse and repeat. After a summer of that the skin toughed up and now I never have blisters or pain on the thumb, which is fortunate because I still have a lot of bach to learn!
Some people find it easier to develop callouses than others. One way to speed up the process is to dab denatured alcohol (what we call methylated spirits in Australia) on your fingertips and thumb callouses after practicing/playing.
It's said that the old axemen used to pee on their hands and let it dry to harden up their skin. I'm not suggesting you try this!!!!!
Cheers.....
DP
It's said that the old axemen used to pee on their hands and let it dry to harden up their skin. I'm not suggesting you try this!!!!!
Cheers.....
DP
