Thunderbird Club

[dagrev]

I have no issue with the Gibson Thunderbird + pickups. A good choice in my book. Others are free to differ.

I would be interested in the TB+ in the 60s pickup location. I'm not sure how good my '64 would sound if the pickups were in the modern positions. I can't imagine it sounding better. But we all have various flavors of "better." I like the TBs at home, but live they or the spacing looses something that is present at home compared to the VPs or the '64. Currently the Black Nylons are a great match for the '06. And they look good on it as well.

 

[BklynKen]

I would be interested in the TB+ in the 60s pickup location. I'm not sure how good my '64 would sound if the pickups were in the modern positions. I can't imagine it sounding better. But we all have various flavors of "better."

As an experiment, I'd love to see you swap pickups between your '64 and '06 to see how much of a difference the same pickups make in the different positions really make. I think all other factors are close enough.

 

[JIO]

Mercs…,fixed, missed that k…

 

[Nocturnal]

Excellent! I'd definitely recommend checking The Stooges eponymous album. And Raw Power. Well, everything.

Preach brother!! Preach!!

 

[PillO]

Mercs…,fixed, missed that k…

But I'm still wondering - cars or freelance security?

 

[dagrev]

As an experiment, I'd love to see you swap pickups between your '64 and '06 to see how much of a difference the same pickups make in the different positions really make. I think all other factors are close enough.

I would love that as well. That would be fascinating. If only I enjoyed soldering.... And molesting my '64! Which would be just that with me hacking about in there. A noticeable amount I suspect, just as slightly moving plucking hand position a little one way or the other yields noticeable differences. I know Scott said it helped tighten up the sound on his first new NR when me moved the neck pickup. Huge difference? Likely not. But like the tweak of a knob or height of a pickup, it doesn't have to be much to show results.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

But I'm still wondering - cars or freelance security?

was really thinking you were gonna catch on first time…..k and all…

 

[RedVee]

Some serious talent there.

Yep, it was on TV again over the weekend. Locally anyway.

Plus the Olivia mini series “Hopelessly Devoted to You” starring Delta Goodrem as Olivia.

 

[GBassNorth]

@JIO

I finally got around to installing the UnderDrive in my China Goth. I did a temporary installation to see what the effect was before going full out with with the stacked pot plan. Now that I have it in I’m thinking I may not really need a dedicated tone pot for the neck pup or even a way to turn the effect off and on. It’s very sensitive to right hand technique.

With both pups on about midway and the tone knob at zero - play soft with the right hand over the neck pup and it’s not easily noticeable; play normal and you can just detect a bit of crunch and compression but certainly not drastic; dig in near the bridge pup and it’s full on fuzz. I’m kinda liking it, very rock oriented.

Some important notes:
- the Goth has fairly hot pups at about 11K each, not sure the effect would be as noticeable with more mild pups
- I raised the bridge pup to full height to maximize the effect on the bridge pup
- I lowered the neck pup a bit so less of the effect comes through on that pup.
- the China Goth is strung with Black Tapes which aren’t overly bright, SS rounds should bring out more of the effect
- the tone knob still functions as a tone knob but It has less range and the overall tone is a bit brighter
- the tone knob on zero seems to bring out more of the effect
- I’ll need more time with it to fine tune the use of the effect, but it seems very right hand touch sensitive.

 

[BklynKen]

I would love that as well. That would be fascinating. If only I enjoyed soldering.... And molesting my '64! Which would be just that with me hacking about in there. A noticeable amount I suspect, just as slightly moving plucking hand position a little one way or the other yields noticeable differences. I know Scott said it helped tighten up the sound on his first new NR when me moved the neck pickup. Huge difference? Likely not. But like the tweak of a knob or height of a pickup, it doesn't have to be much to show results.

Do you use different EQ for each bass?

 

[JIO]

@JIO

I finally got around to installing the UnderDrive in my China Goth. I did a temporary installation to see what the effect was before going full out with with the stacked pot plan. Now that I have it in I’m thinking I may not really need a dedicated tone pot for the neck pup or even a way to turn the effect off and on. It’s very sensitive to right hand technique.

With both pups on about midway and the tone knob at zero - play soft with the right hand over the neck pup and it’s not easily noticeable; play normal and you can just detect a bit of crunch and compression but certainly not drastic; dig in near the bridge pup and it’s full on fuzz. I’m kinda liking it, very rock oriented.

Some important notes:
- the Goth has fairly hot pups at about 11K each, not sure the effect would be as noticeable with more mild pups
- I raised the bridge pup to full height to maximize the effect on the bridge pup
- I lowered the neck pup a bit so less of the effect comes through on that pup.
- the China Goth is strung with Black Tapes which aren’t overly bright, SS rounds should bring out more of the effect
- the tone knob still functions as a tone knob but It has less range and the overall tone is a bit brighter
- the tone knob on zero seems to bring out more of the effect
- I’ll need more time with it to fine tune the use of the effect, but it seems very right hand touch sensitive.

Interesting timing on posting this George - I just completed wiring-up and assembling my latest build. For clarification, when you speak of UnderDrive - are you talking about the blue 'fuzz' cap? If so, If so, I installed it via a push-pull tone pot. I was hoping for a more dramatic effect/result, but it basically adds 'hair' to the output. That can be good.., a little dirt to a clean tone. But in my case it is very subtle. In fact, I need to set it at 'series' with the tone full-off, which as you've discovered brings out more of the effect. My thoughts are is there a way via caps or resistors to accentuate the fuzz effect.

 

[D.M.N.]

Played an outdoor festival today, which overall went very well, but it certainly did nothing for my dislike of Ampegs. To be honest, I feel like something might have been wrong with the amp. I took my Acoustic 370 with me but given the time for swap overs was limited, I plugged into the 70s V4B they had set up, running into an Ampeg 8x10 (on it's side, which is a whole other issue, but whatever). I could not for the life of me get the thing to sound remotely how I wanted. I actually used my Grecobacker instead of my bird, and in hindsight that was probably a good call, because the amp distorted immediately. Like it was going from barely on to overdriven on 3, and the Rick style pickups aren't nearly as hot as the 'Bird, which I'm sure would have put it into full blown distortion. I tried with and without the Ultra-Lo switch and Ultra-Hi, tried adjusting all the knobs, and while they made changes, nothing I could do could get it dialed in how I like to sound. I was a bit excited to try the V4 as I've heard people rave on about them and figured I'd give it a fair shake but it was not what I was expecting. With the ultra-Lo engaged there was nothing but Low end, very little definition, with the Ultra-Hi it was nearly Ice-pick shrill, and it seemed to have this real inherent...honkiness to it when I did much with the mid knob. But then setting that knob to noon seemed to scoop the mids too much compared to the treble and bass. So idk, I'd like to give another one a go sometime and spend some more time with it to see if it's the design of the head that I don't get along with or just that the one I played was a bad example, who knows. Should have just used the Acoustic!

 

[GBassNorth]

Interesting timing on posting this George - I just completed wiring-up and assembling my latest build. For clarification, when you speak of UnderDrive - are you talking about the blue 'fuzz' cap? If so, If so, I installed it via a push-pull tone pot. I was hoping for a more dramatic effect/result, but it basically adds 'hair' to the output. That can be good.., a little dirt to a clean tone. But in my case it is very subtle. In fact, I need to set it at 'series' with the tone full-off, which as you've discovered brings out more of the effect. My thoughts are is there a way via caps or resistors to accentuate the fuzz effect.

Good question on boosting the fuzz cap (yes, the blue Underdrive fuzz cap).

Just thinking out loud, but it seems the hotter the pup the more fuzz you get. I got plenty at the bridge by raising the pup as high as I could get it and still be able to dig in on the strings. But to get that full fuzz on a single note you have to dig in, or over saturate the signal with multiple strings at the same time. Very much like hitting a power chord on an electric guitar. Why it produces more fuzz with the tone knob off still has me a bit puzzled, but I guess with the pot off you might have the least resistance to the signal so more voltage is going thru the fuzz cap and saturating or clipping the diodes inside the fuzz cap.

If I needed to experiment further I’d probably go with a 250k ohm pot or less to further reduce the resistance on the fuzz cap. The Goth pups are hot so that helps a lot. Something even hotter, like a G&L pup or a Mudbucker might bring it out even more.

As I was test wiring mine, I ran thru every value tone cap I had and found the fuzz cap to be darn close to no cap at all, except with no cap you effectively have a kill switch when the tone knob is at zero. You might try eliminating the tone pot all together and just wire the fuzz cap directly to the output jack.

 

[dagrev]

Do you use different EQ for each bass?

Adjustments are minimal, if any on most. Often just for a slight different flavor. The exceptions would be the '06 and the '21 NR. However, since pitting the black nylons on the '06 I don't recall doing much with the EQ. When I do make adjustments I generally start with the BBE Sonic (Maximizer) Stomp. It has two knobs and it's often my first choice in getting more/less lows or highs, or making the sound bigger or smaller/tighter. My head is set mostly flat (has an SVT pre). Bass 1:00, mids 1 and treble 12. With the NR I was adding highs and mids, even with the SITs, as it losses some of its upper mid brightness in a band setting.

 

[dagrev]

Played an outdoor festival today, which overall went very well, but it certainly did nothing for my dislike of Ampegs. To be honest, I feel like something might have been wrong with the amp. I took my Acoustic 370 with me but given the time for swap overs was limited, I plugged into the 70s V4B they had set up, running into an Ampeg 8x10 (on it's side, which is a whole other issue, but whatever). I could not for the life of me get the thing to sound remotely how I wanted. I actually used my Grecobacker instead of my bird, and in hindsight that was probably a good call, because the amp distorted immediately. Like it was going from barely on to overdriven on 3, and the Rick style pickups aren't nearly as hot as the 'Bird, which I'm sure would have put it into full blown distortion. I tried with and without the Ultra-Lo switch and Ultra-Hi, tried adjusting all the knobs, and while they made changes, nothing I could do could get it dialed in how I like to sound. I was a bit excited to try the V4 as I've heard people rave on about them and figured I'd give it a fair shake but it was not what I was expecting. With the ultra-Lo engaged there was nothing but Low end, very little definition, with the Ultra-Hi it was nearly Ice-pick shrill, and it seemed to have this real inherent...honkiness to it when I did much with the mid knob. But then setting that knob to noon seemed to scoop the mids too much compared to the treble and bass. So idk, I'd like to give another one a go sometime and spend some more time with it to see if it's the design of the head that I don't get along with or just that the one I played was a bad example, who knows. Should have just used the Acoustic!

That sucks. It's impossible to not notice when something doesn't sound good, and it tends to take some of the fun out of playing. I don't remember any that I've played through that sounded like your description. They are brighter and more aggressive than an SVT. One of my Ampegs is the V4B reissue, and cab. What you describe doesn't sound like that either. I like Ampeg heads, but dislike many--maybe most of their cabs. Weird and honky sounding to me. There are exceptions. Even the same Ampeg cab can sound pretty different depending on when/where it was made. As you mentioned, having the cab on its side isn't ideal. Not for me anyway, but some do it. Like the sound at their feet or have great monitors I guess. Then again, Ampegs just may not do what you want, not without a lot of time EQing.

 

[Stealth57]

That sucks. It's impossible to not notice when something doesn't sound good, and it tends to take some of the fun out of playing. I don't remember any that I've played through that sounded like your description. They are brighter and more aggressive than an SVT. One of my Ampegs is the V4B reissue, and cab. What you describe doesn't sound like that either. I like Ampeg heads, but dislike many--maybe most of their cabs. Weird and honky sounding to me. There are exceptions. Even the same Ampeg cab can sound pretty different depending on when it was made. As you mentioned, having the cab on its side isn't ideal. Not for me anyway, but some do it. Like the sound at their feet or have great monitors I guess. Then again, Ampegs just may not do what you want, not without a lot of time EQing.

Doesn't sound right. @Chucky Stiletti setup at the GTG sounded very clean across the board with over a dozen different basses.

 

[dagrev]

Doesn't sound right. @Chucky Stiletti setup at the GTG sounded very clean across the board with over a dozen different basses.

There was a V4B there? I know he has an SVT, but that has a different pre in it than the V4B and the power section is different as well. (Requiring different tubes, I believe.) Enough that it's truly a different head than an SVT and not just a lower wattage SVT. That's what my V-4BHs are, however.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Doesn't sound right. @Chucky Stiletti setup at the GTG sounded very clean across the board with over a dozen different basses.

many assume the V-4 is a baby SVT….not the case…(different topology etc.)…also, although seen often, the 8x10 fridge wants to see more power than the V-4’s 100Watt rating..
then again, there may have been something wrong with that head (or cab)….

 

[Stealth57]

There was a V4B there? I know he has an SVT, but that has a different pre in it than the V4B and the power section is different as well. (Requiring different tubes, I believe.) Enough that it's truly a different head than an SVT and not just a lower wattage SVT. That's what my V-4BHs are, however.

I was referring to the general comment "...it certainly did nothing for my dislike of Ampegs."

 

[GonePlaid]

many assume the V-4 is a baby SVT….not the case…(different topology etc.)…also, although seen often, the 8x10 fridge wants to see more power than the V-4’s 100Watt rating..
then again, there may have been something wrong with that head (or cab)….

Throwing in my very old $.02, in the group I played keys/sax in 70, the bassist had a Ric>V4>2 2x15 cabs. I played my Gibson EB-3 through it on one song(All Right Now)[the regular bass man played cowbell]. Sounded pretty decent, IIRC.
Many mango seasons later(80-83), I had a mid 70s blue line SVT/810 rig. I was never overly impressed with it. I got it because, at that time, that's what all the "cool" bass players were using. It did the job-sorta-but I expected it to amaze me. I've since learned that they need to be 'pushed' to get the most outta them. This gig didn't require that much oomph. I woulda been better off saving the $$$ and using my Kasino(200W/2x15). Oops!