Thunderbird Club

[WillyW]

Question for those that might have an answer or opinion…

Do these…
View attachment 5059491

Sound anything like these…
View attachment 5059490

Those transformers look pretty small on the new model.

Dunno about the B-15, never tried one, but I do quite like the PF-50t, sounds great through any cab I have used, 8x8, 2x10, 4x10....

 

[JJR58]

That's a really good price for the B15N.

And in super great condition.

 

[dagrev]

...If you have a new NR bridge pickup I’d strongly consider putting it in the VP neck position. There’s no hard and fast rule that dictates bridge pickups must go in bridge positions. A bridge pup in most cases is going to be hotter than the matching neck pickup but that can easily be overcome by lowering it a bit in the body or better yet, using that funny little thing called a volume knob.

I have no doubt that a NR bridge pup in the neck position of the VP would sound monstrous when soloed! Blended with the VP bridge pickup (bridge on max volume, tone on max, neck rolled on as needed for effect) it would be a very full range earth pounding machine. Quite possibly a sonic improvement over the VP and the NR, the best of both worlds.

All great advice, but this part above is really a great idea. Since VPs have the pickup positions pretty close to the original "magic" locations, this should be outstanding.

 

[GBassNorth]

I wouldn't personally play a yellow bass but it looks nice. Price is right and with some work it could be a decent player, as it sounds like he's gong to do. Would definitely have to get the pu's in phase. It's like my '63 Burns of London Vista Sonic with its "Wild Dog" setting. (out of phase - sounds thin and anemic..) Possibly ok for a guitar - not for a bass. I reversed it and it sounds much better.

Also thought his playing the short except of the Anderson's guy attempting to say something positive about how bad it sounds out of phase was.., well played. An example of how Anderson's (as a company selling that bass) didn't want to criticize it. That's where Lobster is more objective - he's not selling that bass.

I typically go to Andersons website to get the full rundown on a new basses capability, options and cost. They are in the business of marketing what they sell, so I’d never go there for a balanced review.

Lobster has his schtick (the claw) and it is what it is, I can get beyond that. His reviews seem fairly balanced with a few exceptions. One exception is that anything that has a three point bridge automatically gets two strikes against it. He needs to get over it, it’s a perfectly functional bridge that doesn’t have any more or less flaws than any other mass built stock bridge. It is what it is, he needs to either quit harping on it or start harping on all the design flaws most Fender bridges have. The bridge issue is a preference thing and should not warrant a negative or positive comment unless it’s not functioning as designed.

To his credit, he did note the headstock tuning peg finish flaw that isn’t uncommon in the 2021 NR (mine has it as well, and I’ve seen plenty of others that did and even more that didn’t). Certainly worth a mention as a heads up of what to look out for when buying one. And if yours does have that problem, don’t take the tuners off and it’ll never be an issue. I have basses that are over a half century old and have never had the tuners off, it’s no big deal.

To brand the entire NR product line as a poor purchase because of a potential finish flaw in a small percentage of early released basses and a bridge that he doesn’t like but many others do is rather irresponsible. One could argue that he’s just reviewing the bass that he received, fine, then make it perfectly clear that if you want to buy the specific bass he’s holding in his hand here’s what’s good and bad about it, and specifically say that none of that may apply to any other NR on the market, in which case, what’s the point of his review.

I haven’t listened to his Newport review because I felt he did somewhat of a hack job on his NR review, he may have plenty of other perfectly balanced reviews out there, the NR review wasn’t one of them, and I don’t go out of my way for his advice because of it.

Note: for the record, I bought (actually my wife bought) my NR long after I saw his review on them, so I’m not being defensive of something I purchased before he did his review. I knew what I was getting and got it at a very good price. I would not have paid full retail for it, likewise I wouldn’t pay full retail for any bass currently offered by Fender or any other manufacturer that I’ve seen. I want every single bass I buy at or below street value, and I’m usually perfectly comfortable waiting for them to hit the used market for further cost reductions before purchasing.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I love trains in Europe. Haven't taken one here since I was a wee tyke.

the high speed Acela Boston to Washington reminds me of euro rail….

 

[JIO]

And in super great condition.

It looks like mine ('76) but I doubt it's 60 watts - mine's 30 watts. The more recent Heritage edition was 60 watts.

 

[JIO]

I typically go to Andersons website to get the full rundown on a new basses capability, options and cost. They are in the business of marketing what they sell, so I’d never go there for a balanced review.

Lobster has his schtick (the claw) and it is what it is, I can get beyond that. His reviews seem fairly balanced with a few exceptions. One exception is that anything that has a three point bridge automatically gets two strikes against it. He needs to get over it, it’s a perfectly functional bridge that doesn’t have any more or less flaws than any other mass built stock bridge. It is what it is, he needs to either quit harping on it or start harping on all the design flaws most Fender bridges have. The bridge issue is a preference thing and should not warrant a negative or positive comment unless it’s not functioning as designed.

To his credit, he did note the headstock tuning peg finish flaw that isn’t uncommon in the 2021 NR (mine has it as well, and I’ve seen plenty of others that did and even more that didn’t). Certainly worth a mention as a heads up of what to look out for when buying one. And if yours does have that problem, don’t take the tuners off and it’ll never be an issue. I have basses that are over a half century old and have never had the tuners off, it’s no big deal
To brand the entire NR product line as a poor purchase because of a potential finish flaw in a small percentage of early released basses and a bridge that he doesn’t like but many others do is rather irresponsible. One could argue that he’s just reviewing the bass that he received, fine, then make it perfectly clear that if you want to buy the specific bass he’s holding in his hand here’s what’s good and bad about it, and specifically say that none of that may apply to any other NR on the market, in which case, what’s the point of his review.

I haven’t listened to his Newport review because I felt he did somewhat of a hack job on his NR review, he may have plenty of other perfectly balanced reviews out there, the NR review wasn’t one of them, and I don’t go out of my way for his advice because of it.

Note: for the record, I bought (actually my wife bought) my NR long after I saw his review on them, so I’m not being defensive of something I purchased before he did his review. I knew what I was getting and got it at a very good price. I would not have paid full retail for it, likewise I wouldn’t pay full retail for any bass currently offered by Fender or any other manufacturer that I’ve seen. I want every single bass I buy at or below street value, and I’m usually perfectly comfortable waiting for them to hit the used market for further cost reductions before purchasing.

We all have our own opinions and that's ... ok. I think he judged that for the retail cost - it has issues that compared to other basses in that price range were unacceptable. This is a fair assessment because money is the bottom line as not everyone can get a 'deal' on a new bass. So only talking new basses, which is all he reviews - his insights are valid. A good deal on a used bass is another topic.

 

[GBassNorth]

That B-15N!

That's a really good price for the B15N.

And in super great condition.

…and therein lies the dilemma…
There’s not a single B-15 for sale west of the Rockies, nearly every thing I find is local sale only and it’s been that way for years. If I were on the East coast I’d easily have a half dozen prime examples to choose from. But, California has one and only one. It’s in Santa Barbara and is a guitar amp not a bass amp. Guess I’ll just need to continue to keep my eyes peeled.

I did find a B-18 in CA for a decent price, but I suspect an 18” would be awfully boomy in my large high ceiling room.

 

[TBird1958]

the high speed Acela Boston to Washington reminds me of euro rail….

I rode behind this fellow from Paris to Frankfurt, SNCF's trackwork was glass like, and we travelled at 160MPH across France. Deutsche Bundesban's track wasn't nearly as nice and once across the border we slowed considerably, still the trip was only four hours and once in Frankfurt I was within 4 blocks of Uwe Hornung's office and the greatest collection of Gibson basses on the planet.

 

[GBassNorth]

We all have our own opinions and that's ... ok. I think he judged that for the retail cost - it has issues that compared to other basses in that price range were unacceptable. This is a fair assessment because money is the bottom line as not everyone can get a 'deal' on a new bass. So only talking new basses, which is all he reviews - his insights are valid. A good deal on a used bass is another topic.

I completely (and respectfully) disagree with you on his insights being valid.
One (the bridge) is an opinion on a preference he has, not a valid purchase decision for anyone other than him. The other (finish flaw) was an observation on his specific unit, not a valid position unless it’s common across the model, which it isn’t. I’ll stick to a hack rating on his very negative NR review.

 

[JIO]

…and therein lies the dilemma…
There’s not a single B-15 for sale west of the Rockies, nearly every thing I find is local sale only and it’s been that way for years. If I were on the west coast I’d easily have a half dozen prime examples to choose from. But, California has one and only one. It’s in Santa Barbara and is a guitar amp not a bass amp. Guess I’ll just need to continue to keep my eyes peeled.

I did find a B-18 in CA for a decent price, but I suspect an 18” would be awfully boomy in my large high ceiling room.

I use a Carvin 18" cab at our rehearsal space powered by my Mesa M2000 650w tube/FET amp. Granted it doesn't live in a large high ceiling room (pretty much the opposite) but it's not boomy at all. It could be with different settings I suppose, but I find it deep and rich sounding - not boomy.

 

[JIO]

I completely (and respectfully) disagree with you on his insights being valid.
One (the bridge) is an opinion on a preference he has, not a valid purchase decision for anyone other than him. The other (finish flaw) was an observation on his specific unit, not a valid position unless it’s common across the model, which it isn’t. I’ll stick to a hack rating on his very negative NR review.

Like I said - I figured he said something unfavorable about the beloved NR.

 

[GBassNorth]

Like I said - I figured he said something unfavorable about the beloved NR.

LOL - it’s been so long ago that I saw the review I really don’t remember all the details, but yes I do recall it being a very unfavorable review on the entire NR product line based upon his personal bridge preference and a rare finish flaw. I can’t really say my NR is beloved any more than my $300 street value Goth or my $3000 street value Anniversary Bird, but it is a very nice player and quite the looker.

FWIW - my latest bass purchase is a Fender, go figure. Gibson makes up a relatively small percentage of my total bass line up, but I am finding that Tbirds specifically seem to be a good ergonomic fit for me.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I rode behind this fellow from Paris to Frankfurt, SNCF's trackwork was glass like, and we travelled at 160MPH across France. Deutsche Bundesban's track wasn't nearly as nice and once across the border we slowed considerably, still the trip was only four hours and once in Frankfurt I was within 4 blocks of Uwe Hornung's office and the greatest collection of Gibson basses on the planet.

love the French TGV (Train de Gran Vitesse)…..used to really get off on people’s faces when we would outrun them in their Turbo Carreras….

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

wonder what something like this is worth…

 

[JIO]

I really don’t want to get into a debate. Some like the guy. Some don’t. I agree he is a good player.

In this vid he likes the tone. But he harps on finish flaws on a borrowed bass that simply should have been returned to Gibson at the outset. And how was the setup on this bass? I suspect that if he played mine, he’d find it a joy to play. Even with the three-point bridge (which is fine on mine, although I’d rather have a more vintage correct claw and two-point) which he certainly doesn’t like. Overall, I don’t think he is very knowledgeable about some of the basses he reviews. He seems to favor Sterling SBMM Stingrays like the budget SUB. I have one; it’s not that great.

Scott teased us with that. It seems like months ago now. Still waiting…

Being an independent (not sponsored by a guitar company) I imagine he chooses basses he is interested in, which is his prerogative. I give him the benefit of doubt that a bass is a bass and he is experienced at playing them and critically judging them as players as any of us would. (weight, balance, sound, fb access, quality control, finish, parts etc) As in, he knows enough to objectively do this regardless of 'knowing' a specific bass or not. And if he reviews a bass that is in his system top-rated - that becomes criteria for comparison based on price-point. And yes, he doesn't favor the 3-point which again is his personal call. Whatever - I don't like it either but who cares really? I just don't use them. Easy.

I could do a review of all the (production) basses I own/play and would be able to access them objectively; what they do best, and where they fall short. In this respect it's understandable that I've modded many of them because of some of those shortfalls.

Anyway - yes, some like the guy, some don’t. Nobody has to watch his vids.

 

[JIO]

wonder what something like this is worth…
View attachment 5059640

There is a '63-'65 bent brass mute that has been sitting on eBay & Reverb for a l-o-n-g time at $350. The bridge I don't know - most are coming off to be replaced with a (correct) Badbird so maybe it's worth something to someone but it mostly likely will also sit for years.

 

[Ringhammer]

The new metal can NR pickups are on the dark side of the tone continuum, but not as dark as the standard reverse black plastic TB+ pickups.


I did a shoot out last week (posted a bazillion pages ago in this thread) that included a 2021 NR, a VP and a 2012 Gibby Tbird among others (2015 and Goth were also included). All were strung with the exact same strings. The VP came out as the brightest sounding the 2012 Anniversary Tbird with the TB+ pickups came out as the darkest of the bunch and the NR was about in the middle of the pack.


Installing a new Gibby NR pickup in a VP would warm the sound up a bit in the bridge position but you might loose a bit of the growl that’s so sweet in the VP. When modding basses I like to try and leverage each components strong point. The VP excels at grit and grind, and that’s largely due to the bridge pickup. The new NR bridge pickup excels at a deep dark rumble.

If you have a new NR bridge pickup I’d strongly consider putting it in the VP neck position. There’s no hard and fast rule that dictates bridge pickups must go in bridge positions. A bridge pup in most cases is going to be hotter than the matching neck pickup but that can easily be overcome by lowering it a bit in the body or better yet, using that funny little thing called a volume knob.

I have no doubt that a NR bridge pup in the neck position of the VP would sound monstrous when soloed! Blended with the VP bridge pickup (bridge on max volume, tone on max, neck rolled on as needed for effect) it would be a very full range earth pounding machine. Quite possibly a sonic improvement over the VP and the NR, the best of both worlds.

My concern with putting a NR pup in the bridge position on the VP is that you’ll be limiting the amount of deep dark lows it’s capable of. Sure it’ll warm up the bass, but probably not much more than you could easily do with your tone knob or an amp adjustment.

Thanks, great suggestions! I’m still thinking…,

 

[JIO]

LOL - it’s been so long ago that I saw the review I really don’t remember all the details, but yes I do recall it being a very unfavorable review on the entire NR product line based upon his personal bridge preference and a rare finish flaw. I can’t really say my NR is beloved any more than my $300 street value Goth or my $3000 street value Anniversary Bird, but it is a very nice player and quite the looker.

FWIW - my latest bass purchase is a Fender, go figure. Gibson makes up a relatively small percentage of my total bass line up, but I am finding that Tbirds specifically seem to be a good ergonomic fit for me.

You see, I don't hold any brand above another, so I'm not likely to defend one over the other for their design or quality issues. A bass needs to check specific boxes to be favorably rated. And that will vary depending on who is rating the bass. Play what you like to play.

 

[GBassNorth]

I use a Carvin 18" cab at our rehearsal space powered by my Mesa M2000 650w tube/FET amp. Granted it doesn't live in a large high ceiling room (pretty much the opposite) but it's not boomy at all. It could be with different settings I suppose, but I find it deep and rich sounding - not boomy.

This is good information. I’ve never played through an 18” cab of any type and just assumed it would be very boomy and not a good fit for studio or home use. If I’m all wrong on that it opens up some more purchase options I hadn’t considered.

Have you ever played through or heard an 18” Portaflex? I’d be interested in how it compares to the 15” and the 12”.