• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Thunderbird Club

Greco's just have a few "tweaks" of the original Gibson Reverse - Good or bad might depend on the player, the neck on a '64 is like a Thoroughbred, a Greco is maybe more of Cart Horse, neither being bad, both correct for a given occasion. The changes give a Greco its own charm of course.


m7k5HS0.jpg
Totally agree....just point some things out and like Marshall says, the wider neck is most likely for headstock strength.....all this said, mine ain't going anywhere as it gets gigged often.....

Least favored section.....
IMG_3484.jpeg

Most....
IMG_3485.jpeg
 
Great point.

What setting to use when comparing basses for other people is always a challenge. Using a single setting across multiple basses is bound to favor one bass over another. When comparing basses for myself I try to coax the best sound I can get for a given song out of the bass using the onboard controls, right hand placement and attack. Then I do the same for the next bass and so on. It’s interesting to see where each of the controls end up when done, rarely if ever are they all the same settings. The down side is that it ends up showcasing my personal sound preference as I hear it on my amp and cab in my listening space, all of which can vary drastically from user to user. So at the end of the day it’s probably best just to use the same setting across the board, then at least it’s all relative.

I personally think bass #6 (ThunderCaster) sounded absolutely horrible at the prescribed settings, I would never play that bass at those settings. But it’s one of my best sounding basses for rock and blues by far (right up there with #9 modded Goth). The setting I normally use on that bass would be neck pup at 4, bridge pup at 2 or less and tone at 8. At those settings it’s an absolute screamer.

At the end of the day, the test I posted is nothing more than a relative sound check from bass to bass.
and strings, and pickups, and (human factor not much can be done about) inconsistencies in the plucking and time of day, temp, barometric pressure, sampling methods and on and on.....soooo subjective...fun exercise, great tones so not knocking! :thumbsup:
 
All I remember about rum was Bacardi's (white) and that it tasted like rubbing alcohol from Walmart and could/should have been sold in the Rx.
This is a small batch distillery that only uses Hawaiian crystal sugar, no molasses. Very smooth. They also do a series of flavored rums all using Hawaii-only ingredients. Coffee, chocolate, coconut, mango, etc. Their cinnamon rum tastes like a Hot Tamale candy. Puts Fireball to shame.
 
Great point.

What setting to use when comparing basses for other people is always a challenge. Using a single setting across multiple basses is bound to favor one bass over another. When comparing basses for myself I try to coax the best sound I can get for a given song out of the bass using the onboard controls, right hand placement and attack. Then I do the same for the next bass and so on. It’s interesting to see where each of the controls end up when done, rarely if ever are they all the same settings. The down side is that it ends up showcasing my personal sound preference as I hear it on my amp and cab in my listening space, all of which can vary drastically from user to user. So at the end of the day it’s probably best just to use the same setting across the board, then at least it’s all relative.

I personally think bass #6 (ThunderCaster) sounded absolutely horrible at the prescribed settings, I would never play that bass at those settings. But it’s one of my best sounding basses for rock and blues by far (right up there with #9 modded Goth). The setting I normally use on that bass would be neck pup at 4, bridge pup at 2 or less and tone at 8. At those settings it’s an absolute screamer.

At the end of the day, the test I posted is nothing more than a relative sound check from bass to bass.
Well said.
I don't recvall which ones I disliked, but I wrote that off to settings. etc. as you describe, because I know we have reasonably similar tastes and you strive for excellence!
 
Don’t know about the standard Eppi IV caps or Pups.

The Goth pups are wound heavy with a resistance of up around 14.5K for both the bridge and neck. They also have a high value tone cap of .068uf with 500k pots. Installing a .022uf tone cap in the Goth completely transformed the bass. It really opened up the tone palette and drastically increased the volume level. It basically lets the pups breath vs choking them down.

Pre cap change, I’d run the volume around 7 and the tone at about 5. After the change I’m running the volume around 3 and the tone at about 1. If I take the volume up to 7 or 8 those hot pickups tear the house apart.


Here’s a flashback to the original testing from 2020…
Just wrapped up the first leg of the Goth tone cap and pot test where the 500K pots were in the control circuit.

Keep in mind this test was done with fresh Cobalt Flats and stock Goth pups. String or pup changes could give different results. I also limited the tests to finger playing only, between the neck and the neck pup with the neck pup soloed. No adjustments were made to the amp, everything centered.

The first run through was wired with a specific cap and the tone pot set at zero and the volume knob at two, followed by volume settings of 4,6,8,10 with notes taken at each volume setting.
The second run was the same cap with tone set at 3 and volumes at 2,4,6,8,10.
The third run was the cap with tone set at 5 and volumes at 2,4,6,8,10.
That's 15 data points for each cap.

I didn't bother to record data above a 5 setting on the tone pot because I found no significant change in tone with any tested cap above that setting. I eliminated a few caps in pre-testing, the 1.0 cap ended up being nothing more than an off/on switch. At a tone setting of zero there was no signal to the amp, great if you want a mute switch, settings above that were deep and dark but resulted in very little tone change regardless of the setting. I eliminated the caps with values less than .022uf because they seemed to have very little impact on tone, it was nearly the equivalent of hardwiring the pups to the output jack.

The caps that were tested were .001, .082, .068, .047 and .022 (my apologies to those of you who use commas in place of decimal points, I'm sticking to the American standard on this one).

Findings were different than I anticipated but did highlight a huge interplay between the volume and tone knobs. Some of the caps that sounded best at a given volume were completely unuseable at other volumes. And louder is better doesn't always hold true.

Findings:

.082uf cap - smooth, deep and dark, nice low mids BUT very little adjustability. A tone knob setting of zero requires a volume knob setting of 8 to get any useable level of sound, and at a volume setting of 9 or higher it sounds very harsh and unpleasant (my notes actually say "yuck"). This is the cap that I thought would sound best, so much for confirmation bias. Kick the tone knob up to 5 and you have nice smooth useable lows starting at a volume setting of 4 to 6. At a volume of 8 the high mids start to kick in and quickly ruin the party. Bottom line - not ready for prime time.

.068uf cap - this is what the Goth comes stock with. Unfortunately my stock cap got fried in the desolder so I had to wire a couple of orange caps together for a .069uf value, close enough. Good deep tone, a bit muddy at the low tone settings and moving to more mid focused as the tone pot value is increased. Loud and boomy at volume settings of 9 or higher. Sweet spot on the volume knob is between 4 and 8. Below that and not enough useable volume, above that it's boomy and undefined. Bottom line - ok but could be a lot better.

.047uf cap - I found this one surprising. At zero tone it's much to quiet until you get the volume knob up to about 7 or 8. At that point it sounds great, but then takes a massive volume jump when the volume knob hits 9 and sounds harsh as it's maxed. The good news is it takes on a different personality when the tone knob is set at 3. Sounds very nice and balanced, smooth, deep but defined at volumes of 2 to 8 very linear and predictable, then falls apart again at a volume of 9 or higher when an upper mid hump sets in. If the tone knob is set at 5 the mids kick in much sooner and sound nice until you hit a volume setting of 8 or higher. Bottom line - I could live with this one. Lots of useable tones once you get off the zero tone setting.

.022uf cap - not what I expected at all. At zero tone setting it was very smooth and balanced across all strings. At a tone setting of 3 it had very musical lows and low mids, very useable tone at volumes of 3 or higher. At a volume of 9 still quite nice. Volume maxed at 10 brought out the yuck factor with an almost overdriven distortion boomy obnoxious sound. But again, a picture perfect sound from volume settings of 3 to 8 and tone settings of zero to max. bottom line - this is the keeper cap of the bunch for the 500K pots. Will be interesting to see how it works with the 250K pots.

.001uf cap - tone on zero gives super loud deep lows even at volume settings as low as 4, thunderous at a volume of 6, destructive at 8, then at a volume of 9 the upper mids mix in and you better have hearing protection and a spare set of speakers for your cab. Increasing the tone cap setting drastically increases mids. On this bass this is the cap to use if all you want is lows and low mids and don't mind leaving the tone pot on zero and the volume at 5 or less. Truly makes a one trick pony (or wrecking ball) out of the Goth. Bottom line - "nuke em from orbit"

And there you have it (well, half of it, the other half will happen when the 250k tone pot arrives).
TB rules, pic or it didn't happen...
img_4328-jpg.4000421

Note: the cap labeled .1 in the pic is actually a .001uf cap
I should have commented before - that .022 to .001 difference is huge. I'd expect the behavior you reference - mainly rolling off highs. I expected either the .047 or .022 cap to be the one. Even a .01 should work, but I'd expect the .022 to be better.
 
All I remember about rum was Bacardi's (white) and that it tasted like rubbing alcohol from Walmart and could/should have been sold in the Rx.
All I know about Bacardi is from the time three of us drank a fifth of 151 one evening. I woke first the next morning and was the only one without a hangover.
 
Great point.

What setting to use when comparing basses for other people is always a challenge. Using a single setting across multiple basses is bound to favor one bass over another. When comparing basses for myself I try to coax the best sound I can get for a given song out of the bass using the onboard controls, right hand placement and attack. Then I do the same for the next bass and so on. It’s interesting to see where each of the controls end up when done, rarely if ever are they all the same settings. The down side is that it ends up showcasing my personal sound preference as I hear it on my amp and cab in my listening space, all of which can vary drastically from user to user. So at the end of the day it’s probably best just to use the same setting across the board, then at least it’s all relative.

I personally think bass #6 (ThunderCaster) sounded absolutely horrible at the prescribed settings, I would never play that bass at those settings. But it’s one of my best sounding basses for rock and blues by far (right up there with #9 modded Goth). The setting I normally use on that bass would be neck pup at 4, bridge pup at 2 or less and tone at 8. At those settings it’s an absolute screamer.

At the end of the day, the test I posted is nothing more than a relative sound check from bass to bass.
Funny thing about getting the "best" sound. What does that mean? I don't know. I don't even know what I like from day to day. There's always some tweak I feel like doing to make things sound better that day, even if everything else is the same. I did the Precision with dead flats thing for a while and thought it sounded perfect. Now I don't like that sound near as much and go for more of a scooped sound with a bit of zing to it. In another year or two, who knows what will sound good to my damaged ears.

As you point out, trying to decide how to compare the sound of one bass vs another bass is next to impossible. When doing that, the fairest way is to use the same strings, same settings, etc. But, that may favor one over another because one set of pickups and pickup locations sounds great that way, and then the other one needs to have a completely different set of strings and settings. Not that we don't try. Trying means playing bass, which isn't a bad thing to have to do.
 
This is a small batch distillery that only uses Hawaiian crystal sugar, no molasses. Very smooth. They also do a series of flavored rums all using Hawaii-only ingredients. Coffee, chocolate, coconut, mango, etc. Their cinnamon rum tastes like a Hot Tamale candy. Puts Fireball to shame.
Sounds awesome.
When I was in the USVI some years ago, I still wasn't drinking. Rum, of course, is what put them on the map. Ifw e get to go back, I definitely intend to explore the rums.
 
Funny thing about getting the "best" sound. What does that mean? I don't know. I don't even know what I like from day to day. There's always some tweak I feel like doing to make things sound better that day, even if everything else is the same. I did the Precision with dead flats thing for a while and thought it sounded perfect. Now I don't like that sound near as much and go for more of a scooped sound with a bit of zing to it. In another year or two, who knows what will sound good to my damaged ears.

As you point out, trying to decide how to compare the sound of one bass vs another bass is next to impossible. When doing that, the fairest way is to use the same strings, same settings, etc. But, that may favor one over another because one set of pickups and pickup locations sounds great that way, and then the other one needs to have a completely different set of strings and settings. Not that we don't try. Trying means playing bass, which isn't a bad thing to have to do.
While this is all true, what I really want to know is where is our color commentator? What have you done with him?
 
After watching @godofthunder59 's video on the Indonesian VP, I asked our local L&M to bring one in (they had a few left in the system). Everything Scott said is 100% on point; the '64 is a great bass, but at least this Indonesian made VP smokes it for tone, playability, finishing, fret work. Just a great bass and a great value too.
 
Last edited:
While this is all true, what I really want to know is where is our color commentator? What have you done with him?
He's been a little quiet lately. I have been dialing in a bit more teal and a bit less red lately. When you get too much red in the sound, the electric blue bits wash out and the black just isn't as good.
 
All I know about Bacardi is from the time three of us drank a fifth of 151 one evening. I woke first the next morning and was the only one without a hangover.
One of them must have woke up first. That must be where that pic of you laying naked in a front yard came from that has been floating around the interwebs. Looked like a restful sleep in the Box Woods. :smug: