Thunderbird Club

[PillO]

PillO may be on to something (as opposed to being on something).

It can be both!

 

[dagrev]

Here's a big old n00bie n00b question ......



Are T-birds routed under the pickguard? Could one conceivably remove the guard, fill the screwholes (ahem!) , refinish, and have a T-bird logo painted in the proper spot?



I've jonesed strictly for NR's for years but the recent pix of white T-birds with chrome pickups.....................


View attachment 3895355

I can't say about all models, but some have a small routed strip for wiring. I haven't removed a VP pickguard, so I can't say.

 

[PillO]

PillO may be on to something (as opposed to being on something).

Have you had it with any other set of strings? If other strings have not evidenced this problem, I wouldn't think it would be setup related as it would likely (not positively), evidence itself then as well. If it just started, could be neck related. Possibly it's moving a little and causing fret buzz. But I would think your teacher would notice a fret buzz. If it just started, a string might be going bad as well.

@Border notes that new strings are on the way. I would encourage a full set up (as always) with string change*. And I would also suggest checking saddle numbers.


* If memory serves (and it might not), @Nocturnal and @GBassNorth have posted good sets of instructions for set up of a thunderbird.

 

[5StringBlues]

I can't say about all models, but some have a small routed strip for wiring. I haven't removed a VP pickguard, so I can't say.

Gracias. More money to spend if things ever get back to "normal".

 

[dagrev]

@Border notes that new strings are on the way. I would encourage a full set up (as always) with string change*. And I would also suggest checking saddle numbers.


* If memory serves (and it might not), @Nocturnal and @GBassNorth have posted good sets of instructions for set up of a thunderbird.

I saved it from Nocturnal.

Thunderbird Club

 

[PillO]

I saved it from Nocturnal.

Thunderbird Club

So far, I am half right!

 

[MCF]

PillO may be on to something (as opposed to being on something).

Have you had it with any other set of strings? If other strings have not evidenced this problem, I wouldn't think it would be setup related as it would likely (not positively), evidence itself then as well. If it just started, could be neck related. Possibly it's moving a little and causing fret buzz. But I would think your teacher would notice a fret buzz. If it just started, a string might be going bad as well.

if it isn’t the saddle (@PillO has good eyes) or the string, it could be the neck has moved. Or it could be a fret is coming up. My lovely NR has developed a G string buzz of late and Sunday actually choked at the 9th fret. I’m thinking since I’ll be working on it, I’ll go ahead and try the incoming SIT stainless steels on it. One thing with that bird is that the seller told me his tech thought it had a loose fret. I checked when I got it and the result I found was “could be,” but it wasn’t causing an issue. So we’ll see when I can get to it.

 

[BklynKen]

So far, I am half right!

But also half wrong!

 

[PillO]

But also half wrong!

Not yet! We have to see what @GBassNorth has to say about set up instructions!

 

[godofthunder59]

I can't say about all models, but some have a small routed strip for wiring. I haven't removed a VP pickguard, so I can't say.

The Vintage Pro has the little route for wiring.

 

[MCF]

This bird is still looking to choose someone. No affiliation.
For Sale - Gibson Thunderbird

 

[GBassNorth]

So far, I am half right!

As a rule of thumb, never second guess yourself, leave that chore to others.
Your original statement was correct. I have posted the method I use for the three point bridge equipped bass set up. It's basically what's Noc posts but has a couple of additional trouble shooting tips.
Here it is from post #41490 in this thread...

Lots of advice on this thread about neck adjustments. I like my action very low so I might as well jump in with what has worked best for me... something I clipped from TB some time ago and modified heavily that has proven to be spot on for all my Gibby needs

Do this...
1. Loosen the strings to a slack setting then adjust your truss rod to create a slight back bow. From a dead straight neck position it might take two or three 1/3 clockwise turns. BTW, it's clockwise as seen from the headstock end of the bass looking down the neck towards the bridge.

2. Next, lower your bridge until the rear of the bridge is just off the body and the front of the bridge is about 1/8" higher than the rear.

3. Bring your strings up to tension and tune each string (don't worry about intonation yet).

4. Now check your action around the 15th and higher frets to see if it's comfortable for you without any or too much buzz (some players don't mind a little buzz). Don't worry about buzzing in the lower registers at this point. Raise your bridge as necessary to eliminate unwanted fret buzz in the 15th to end of fretboard area but always make sure the front stud is keeping the front of the bridge at least 1/8" higher than the rear of the bridge.

Note: the saddles on the 3 point bridge are specific in height to each string to ensure the strings match the FB radius, they are sequentially numbered so check to make sure each one is in the proper position. Also note that it is much easier on you, the studs and your stud inserts to slightly loosen the strings before raising the bridge height. Yes that means you'll need to retune after each adjustment. As an alternate, you can start step 4 with the bridge in a higher position and keep lowering and tuning until you get the level of buzz in the 15th and higher frets that suits you. Just be sure to always keep the front stud higher than the rears.

5. Now you've got your bass retuned with a lower action at the high frets. Your lower frets will now either buzz (see 6a for the subsequent steps) or the action will still be too high even in the low registers (see 6b for the subsequent steps).

6a: Low Register buzzes: You need to loosen the truss rod. Take off the truss rod cover and insert an allen wrench in the allen nut (the cheaper Epis generally have allen nuts). Don't detune the bass for that, rather lift the A and the D string to the side to the slots of the G and E string to have room for turning the allen wrench. With the bass' butt resting on your toes and the strings/fretboard facing away from you, you - while standing up and looking down - will now turn the allen wrench counterclockwise maybe 1/3 of a turn and immediately look to find out how the action of the bass has altered and buzzing has become less or disappeared. Don't be scared of overdoing it - it is impossible to break a truss rod by loosening it as you are releasing tension. That said, one or two "one third turns" counterclockwise should do it. sometimes you will need a few more of those to actually adjust the bass if the neck is too straight or even curved away from the fretboard (called back bow).

6b: Low Register has too much action: Same as 6a, except that you have too tighten the truss rod now which is done by turning the allen wrench clockwise. You will also have to be more careful as you can break a trussrod by overtightening it. When tightening a truss rod its best to slacken the strings a bit first, then make your truss adjustment followed by retuning and checking to see if your adjustment eliminated unwanted fret buzz.

7. After a combination of either steps 5 and 6a or steps 5 and 6b you should have a relatively or even totally buzz free bass with good to reasonable action. If there is still some persistent buzzing at some places then raise the bridge a little. Raising the front stud will raise all strings (remember to slacken the strings first then after raising the front stud retune the bass). Raising the treble side rear stud just a very tiny bit more may help the D and G string, or raising the bass side rear stud just a tiny bit more may help the E and A strings. The bridge does not have to be dead level but it should be very very close.

8. You should be done... but if you're still getting buzzing just on one string (while the other strings are buzz-free) and you have to raise the bridge considerably to make it go away even though you could stay much lower if it were just for the other strings, then double check you're saddles to ensure they're in the proper sequence. In a pinch you might be able to swap the D and A saddles but only as a last resort. If you still have unwanted buzzing then your low action expectations may be too much or you might have a string or fret level or neck hump problem. See step 9 for string checking. For fret level or twisted neck or neck hump or ski jump problems find a good luthier and see if they can fix the problem.

9. Occasionally it's possible to twist a string when installing a them on a bass. A twisted string can potentially have an odd oscillation that may make it vibrate in more of an elliptical pattern vs a flatter pattern. In some cases the effect is great enough to cause fret buzz on that specific string. To fix this, detune the string and starting at the nut pinch the string between your fingers and slowly slide down the string towards the bridge allowing the ball end of the string to spin as needed to eliminate any accidental twist you may have put in the string when installing. Once untwisted, hold the ball end in position and retune the string without letting the ball flip or spin. This should eliminate any twist related issues.

Edit: follow all the above steps in order. Don't skip steps or start in the middle.

 

[dagrev]

As a rule of thumb, never second guess yourself, leave that chore to others.
Your original statement was correct. I have posted the method I use for the three point bridge equipped bass set up. It's basically what's Noc posts but has a couple of additional trouble shooting tips.
Here it is from post #41490 in this thread...

Lots of advice on this thread about neck adjustments. I like my action very low so I might as well jump in with what has worked best for me... something I clipped from TB some time ago and modified heavily that has proven to be spot on for all my Gibby needs

Do this...
1. Loosen the strings to a slack setting then adjust your truss rod to create a slight back bow. From a dead straight neck position it might take two or three 1/3 clockwise turns. BTW, it's clockwise as seen from the headstock end of the bass looking down the neck towards the bridge.

2. Next, lower your bridge until the rear of the bridge is just off the body and the front of the bridge is about 1/8" higher than the rear.

3. Bring your strings up to tension and tune each string (don't worry about intonation yet).

4. Now check your action around the 15th and higher frets to see if it's comfortable for you without any or too much buzz (some players don't mind a little buzz). Don't worry about buzzing in the lower registers at this point. Raise your bridge as necessary to eliminate unwanted fret buzz in the 15th to end of fretboard area but always make sure the front stud is keeping the front of the bridge at least 1/8" higher than the rear of the bridge.

Note: the saddles on the 3 point bridge are specific in height to each string to ensure the strings match the FB radius, they are sequentially numbered so check to make sure each one is in the proper position. Also note that it is much easier on you, the studs and your stud inserts to slightly loosen the strings before raising the bridge height. Yes that means you'll need to retune after each adjustment. As an alternate, you can start step 4 with the bridge in a higher position and keep lowering and tuning until you get the level of buzz in the 15th and higher frets that suits you. Just be sure to always keep the front stud higher than the rears.

5. Now you've got your bass retuned with a lower action at the high frets. Your lower frets will now either buzz (see 6a for the subsequent steps) or the action will still be too high even in the low registers (see 6b for the subsequent steps).

6a: Low Register buzzes: You need to loosen the truss rod. Take off the truss rod cover and insert an allen wrench in the allen nut (the cheaper Epis generally have allen nuts). Don't detune the bass for that, rather lift the A and the D string to the side to the slots of the G and E string to have room for turning the allen wrench. With the bass' butt resting on your toes and the strings/fretboard facing away from you, you - while standing up and looking down - will now turn the allen wrench counterclockwise maybe 1/3 of a turn and immediately look to find out how the action of the bass has altered and buzzing has become less or disappeared. Don't be scared of overdoing it - it is impossible to break a truss rod by loosening it as you are releasing tension. That said, one or two "one third turns" counterclockwise should do it. sometimes you will need a few more of those to actually adjust the bass if the neck is too straight or even curved away from the fretboard (called back bow).

6b: Low Register has too much action: Same as 6a, except that you have too tighten the truss rod now which is done by turning the allen wrench clockwise. You will also have to be more careful as you can break a trussrod by overtightening it. When tightening a truss rod its best to slacken the strings a bit first, then make your truss adjustment followed by retuning and checking to see if your adjustment eliminated unwanted fret buzz.

7. After a combination of either steps 5 and 6a or steps 5 and 6b you should have a relatively or even totally buzz free bass with good to reasonable action. If there is still some persistent buzzing at some places then raise the bridge a little. Raising the front stud will raise all strings (remember to slacken the strings first then after raising the front stud retune the bass). Raising the treble side rear stud just a very tiny bit more may help the D and G string, or raising the bass side rear stud just a tiny bit more may help the E and A strings. The bridge does not have to be dead level but it should be very very close.

8. You should be done... but if you're still getting buzzing just on one string (while the other strings are buzz-free) and you have to raise the bridge considerably to make it go away even though you could stay much lower if it were just for the other strings, then double check you're saddles to ensure they're in the proper sequence. In a pinch you might be able to swap the D and A saddles but only as a last resort. If you still have unwanted buzzing then your low action expectations may be too much or you might have a string or fret level or neck hump problem. See step 9 for string checking. For fret level or twisted neck or neck hump or ski jump problems find a good luthier and see if they can fix the problem.

9. Occasionally it's possible to twist a string when installing a them on a bass. A twisted string can potentially have an odd oscillation that may make it vibrate in more of an elliptical pattern vs a flatter pattern. In some cases the effect is great enough to cause fret buzz on that specific string. To fix this, detune the string and starting at the nut pinch the string between your fingers and slowly slide down the string towards the bridge allowing the ball end of the string to spin as needed to eliminate any accidental twist you may have put in the string when installing. Once untwisted, hold the ball end in position and retune the string without letting the ball flip or spin. This should eliminate any twist related issues.

Edit: follow all the above steps in order. Don't skip steps or start in the middle.

Bookmarked!

 

[dagrev]

This bird is still looking to choose someone. No affiliation.
For Sale - Gibson Thunderbird

Somebody's going to get a really nice bass said a really nice price. My '06 Gibson gets more enjoyable the more I play it. It's darn near perfect in terms of play ability as far as I'm concerned. If the for sale Thunderbird is anything like mine, somebody's going to get a bass that plays and feels great. I think I would have been and the buyer on this one. But I'm glad I have the one I do. It has no signs of wear and it already has the Hipshot bridge. That certainly is a nice addition.

 

[MCF]

Somebody's going to get a really nice bass said a really nice price. My '06 Gibson gets more enjoyable the more I play it. It's darn near perfect in terms of play ability as far as I'm concerned. If the for sale Thunderbird is anything like mine, somebody's going to get a bass that plays and feels great. I think I would have been and the buyer on this one. But I'm glad I have the one I do. It has no signs of wear and it already has the Hipshot bridge. That certainly is a nice addition.

You got a great deal. This one is a great deal. And the PB NR in Michigan is still available for pickup only at an excellent price.

 

[MCF]

Bookmarked!

What’s a bookmark. It sounds kinda hard. Like searching.

 

[GBassNorth]

After noting a couple of pages back that some birds don't react to tone knob adjustments as linear as you'd expect and that's not a function of a broken tone knob (as the two non bird guys on the video claimed) I decided to do a little test.

I plugged each of my birds into my amp, set the neck volume on full, bridge volume off, and the tone on full then played open GDAE strings finger style directly over the neck pickup while adjusting the tone knob down in one step increments. The results were interesting....

Eppi VP - no noticeable tone change from 10 to 4, then noticeably darker from 3 to 0
Gibby Anniversary - noticeable darkening at each step from 10 to 6, then from 5 to 0 no change
Greco - no noticeable tone change from 10 to 8, noticeable darkening with each step from 7 to 0
BaCH - no noticeable tone change from 10 to 4, noticable darkening with each step from 3 to 0
2015 - no noticeable tone change from 10 to 6, darker at 5, no change from 4 to 0

Conclusion - one could easily assume the VP tone pot isn't functioning IF the volume of a soloed pup is set at max and the tone pot is only rotated between 3 and 10. The Greco had by far the most linear tone pot and the 2015 had by far the least linear tone pot when volume is at max, all tone pots functioned just fine when the soloed pup volume was at 8 or less.

Something else to consider - I have all my pups raised to the max and strings nice and low, so I may be experiencing a bit of natural overdrive or over saturation in the signal that could be impacting the tone.

If you wish to repeat this test on your own bird it's very important that the volume of the soloed pot is at max. Anything less than max gives completely different and mostly very linear results. I also suspect that using a pick would give different results.

 

[Mike.C.]

i don’t have an hour for that so I just skimmed. But when they found the tone pot made no difference I knew something was weird.

Exactly! Why would someone even DO a review/comparison video with a bass that they suspect may have an issue???

 

[StephnG]

Bookmarked!

Ditto,
So far I have been apprehensive to crank a truss rod, but now I'm gonna give it a shot and if it doesn't work out, I'll know WHO to bother

 

[Border]

Sincere thanks for all the great advice, especially Pillo, Dagrev and MCF. I have only changed the strings once, and for the life of me cannot recall what these are. I am going to print and reread the set up instructions before taking it to my tech, so as to discuss what needs to be done. Called him and even with the limitations from the pandemic they are open and he has the time to get to it. I am just waiting for the strings to arrive to take it in. I greatly appreciate all the good advice.