Time to move on? Help! (WARNING: megapost)

[ChrisB2]

Yeah so I joined a start-up cover band.

Mistake, I know, but... these guys are good and it's my first time playing with a group with a keyboard AND sax. There are some pretty neat possibilities. I left a mediocre working cover band to find greener pastures and didn't have to look far to find something I thought was going to be great... and still may, but...

Everything was in place, after I joined; the lead singer/booker was very popular and between him (mostly) and the entire band we could create a draw of about 100-200 right off the bat (so I was told), and already had some gig possibilities lined up. I was pumped.

Everything's great, right? Uh oh. The lead singer/frontman/booker turned out to be a total alcoholic. Drunk every time we got together, including our coming-out show/party we held at the sax player's house just to get our people excited. They had already known about this problem (but didn't tell me??) so the drummer ("sort-of" bandleader), who is also his buddy (the drummer, ex-singer, one guitar, and sax player are buddies outside the band, I didn't know any of them before), "asked him to leave" the band, because they were all fed up with his drinking and this was the last straw. So he left, and we go looking for a replacement. I'll spare you the gory details, but suffice to say it's near impossible to attract a good lead singer without shows booked. And, vice versa. You know the ol' catch 22.

So... while the band is really tight and technically proficient, we really can't do anything until we get the vocals covered (plus we lost the guy who was supposed to be able to get all these great-paying gigs and bring most of the crowd). Some members have stepped up (I do not (can't?) sing haha) but the sound is thin. It's not going to work, the band doesn't have good vocals in it unfortunately. And what really worries me is that some members will say "So-and-so, you sounded great on that song! We should just use you!" when really he sounded thin and not great (remember they're buddies). Better than me, but not as good as we are instrumentally, nor for what I'm looking to be involved with, and I'm not comfortable saying anything because they are buddies. I have said things like "I think we deserve vocals that are as good as the instruments" and they all agree.

My problem is this. I like these guys and the music is great. And if this thing can get off the ground it offers me a lot of what I'm looking for in a band. But... we've been going nowhere for about 4 months and I have a limited number of years to gig. I told these guys right off the bat, and every chance I get, that for me this is all about the gig. I am not interested in jamming or playing in the garage more than minimally necessary to prepare to gig. And all the while I see other bands advertising for bass players... working bands... which really makes me question the wisdom of staying with this group any longer. But I know they struggled to secure a good bassist, and I hate to put them back in that boat.

So what does the Collective Brain think my next move should be? I'm already going to audition with another band just for fun. I warned them over and over that I'm technically not available right now, and not sure what my future holds, but we both wanted to do the dance anyway just to see. My wife is saying do what's right for you, just go on some auditions. But I don't want to be the bad guy and bail out so fast, and it's pointless to go on auditions if I end up staying with these guys, which I would do if a great singer fell out of the sky but I just don't see that happening. We've been auditioning singers, and got a guy who was good but he quit on us, so now we're back to square one.. and people are wearing thin, grumbling about doing the legwork to find somebody (they were struggling before I joined, so for them it's been an even longer drought period). I'm sorry, and it sounds mean, but I don't really have to do that work; there are plenty of working bands that are actively doing everything but playing bass, and that's all they need, is a guy to play bass, not book shows, run ads, interview singers, sing, dance, or anything. Just show up and play bass. I realize that makes me sound selfish and unreliable, but things have changed from what I was told at sign-on...

Opinions/thoughts/rants/advice/criticism/support all eagerly accepted...

 

[invader3k]

Well, the band effectively changed after you joined. You aren't getting what you signed on for. I would not hesitate to audition for other bands if you see something that is genuinely an interesting opportunity.

Really, if you guys have all the material down, the main focus of everyone in the band should be trying to find a singer. Yes, it's very tough; but it's not impossible either. A good singer who doesn't expect a ton of gigs lined up immediately is out there. You just all have to focus on finding that one person.

 

[bassbully]

I think you answered allot of your own questions here. Follow your wife's advice and try out for another "Working" band that has their act together. Don't feel you are tied to any one or any band that is not doing anything or going anywhere. Life is to short and your time is to importent to waste playing bad music or being in a bad band. It makes music no fun and if you are like me and most TBer's here we are in this cuz we enjoy music and want it to be fun.

I was in a band kind of like the one you are in. The singer wasnt a drunk but sucked. The band was good and we went no wher. I did all the bookings and had too much band induced stress form bandmates fighting etc. I felt guilty as you do on leaving since this band had a hard time also finding a committed bassit. I had enough and found a gigging band. I left the old band who took it tough and never looked back. Since then i have moved only up in quality of bands I have played in. If it isnt working find a group where it is.

 

[Phalex]

I'm just going to come right out and say it: Karaoke. Check out places that do karaoke. The lead singer in my band got his start doing karaoke. He won lots of completions (These might be good things to go to because all the singers should have some talent). We have a backup singer (She doesn't sing backups, she fills in if the regular guy is running late because of his job or has other conflicts.) She's a karaoke queen as well. People that do karaoke have a good head start on lyrics as well. Stage presence may have to be worked on, but it's a learn-able thing.

There is also the age old method of sniping. If you happen to hear a fantastic singer in a really crappy band, there's no harm in seeing if they are satisfied with the outfit they are with. If the crappy band is gigging regularly the lack of gigs with your band may be a hindrance, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Years ago I sniped a keyboard player this way.

They are out there, you just have to go find them where they are.

 

[john_g]

I'm just going to come right out and say it: Karaoke. Check out places that do karaoke. The lead singer in my band got his start doing karaoke. He won lots of completions (These might be good things to go to because all the singers should have some talent). We have a backup singer (She doesn't sing backups, she fills in if the regular guy is running late because of his job or has other conflicts.) She's a karaoke queen as well. People that do karaoke have a good head start on lyrics as well. Stage presence may have to be worked on, but it's a learn-able thing.

There is also the age old method of sniping. If you happen to hear a fantastic singer in a really crappy band, there's no harm in seeing if they are satisfied with the outfit they are with. If the crappy band is gigging regularly the lack of gigs with your band may be a hindrance, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. Years ago I sniped a keyboard player this way.

They are out there, you just have to go find them where they are.

+1

Our singer is a karaoke queen too! And she is the best singer I have ever worked with. Great piece of advice from Phalex.

And, Ive learned that unless you are being paid to be there as a hired hand or some other arrangement like that, you need to do whats best for you.

Dont worry if a band you are not happy in cant find a replacement. If you are doing this for fun, like I am, your options should always be open.

Dont tell other bands you are not technically available, just make it clear you are looking and wont be committing to anything unless you are completely into it.

Dont be a dick about it, but act like the hot 22 year old blond girl...explore whatever interests you and dont commit unless you are completely into it (and even then, if something better comes along the next day, go for it!)

 

[MNAirHead]

I'd test the "no drinking until the final set rule" by EVERYONE.. this will flush out the booze hounds and emotionally crutched.

I've had the "ultimatim -- me or him" put forward to me... it sucked for my former band (that I owned) we took lessons learned and are putting together a better band.

Timmy

 

[Phalex]

I knew some guys in the twin cities that were forming a band and held tryouts for a drummer and a singer ala American Idol. The band has since broken up, but their webpage is still up with videos of a bunch of the tryouts: Link Removed

I thought this was a great idea, and it turned out to be a decent draw for the venue on Thursday nights.

 

[electracoyote]

Opinions/thoughts/rants/advice/criticism/support all eagerly accepted...

Well, first off, I think you have every right to be concerned and there is no need for all the apologetics.

It's hard to give up on a promising project when you're only missing one part. Yes, it is a crucial part, but when and if this band lands a competent lead singer, it sounds like it's going to be something you would be proud of.

Is there any possibility of continuing to rehearse with this band while possibly taking a bass slot in a gigging band? If you're upfront with both bands, I can't see anyone holding it against you under the circumstances.

You made it clear to the first band that you want to gig, and as long as you continue rehearsing with them, they should give you the freedom to do that. If you go into a second band explaining why you happen to be available, the onus is on them to decide whether or not they desire your services. Seeing how good bass players with their act together are not all that common, I'm sure some of these bands wouldn't mind rolling the dice even if it did mean short term or you had to bow out when you solved your singer issue in the first band.

My guitarist started "subbing" with another band about a year ago, so it's getting harder to refer to his second band as a sub gig. But he still makes all our rehearsals and the majority of the gigs, he has to do some juggling, but we're still happy to have him and I'm pretty sure the other band is too.

 

[Joe Murray]

ChrisB2,

You sound like a good guy. I've been in a situation like this before (kind of sorta, anyways) but my issue was that the band I was playing in included guys that had become pretty good friends to me. It seems in your situation that your band, is just that...a band. They all seem to be buddies and you are the new guy in. Not that you don't care for them, but I think you're valuing your new friendship more than you happiness playing. I think you should test the waters, see what other (working) bands are in need of your services. I think if you explain to your current band that you're going to go see what else is available they should understand....I mean you guys haven't worked in 4 months, right? Best of luck to you.

 

[tycobb73]

I've gotten 2 very good singers from the karaoke route.

But also, auditon and play with everyone. This is the project lsit I have going right now. My modern rock / country female fronted band. My acoustic band - which is the same as the other minus drums and 1 guitar player. My new rock band with male singer. My hair metal band. I can learn songs relatively quickly so that helps. When my weekends start to conflict then I'll make choices.

 

[MooseLumps]

4 months is long enough to wait. Get a diffrent gig and tell them to call if they need a sub.

 

[Spraeg]

If you're in it for the fun of it, and you want to play with these guys, then stick it out. If you're in it to be a jobber or working musician, and you just want to play, move on. It all depends on how you're approaching it. If the band isn't delivering what you want for whatever reason, then sometimes it's best to just cut and run. However, it would be possible to do both, just cut back on rehearsals and such with the first band until you find a singer, and do sub work with other groups on the side to keep you playing (it will also increase your skill level and teach you new songs by subbing out alot). And if you happen to find a different band you want to play with regularly in the meantime, then part ways gracefully and let them know to keep you in mind if they get things together.

 

[ChrisB2]

Thanks everyone for the great insight.

Phalex I actually really liked your idea about American Idol-type tryouts, and even proposed it to my group but no one thought it was a good idea.

The other band I was going to audition for already found someone before my scheduled time came up so I was canceled. But I appreciate all the encouragement to check out other bands and I'll keep watching.

Then, I just found out today that my other previous band that I had "left" (though not totally) to join this one, which has been on hiatus, is now officially disbanded. So all gigging is now full stop...

In the meantime, I've decided I do like this band, and the prospects are strong if we get the right person, and a promising candidate is coming out next week so I'm going to stick with it... for now... and keep my eyes open.

Thanks again for the much appreciated responses...

 

[ustabawannab]

Wow it's always so amazing to read these TB threads. Chris, you and I are walking lockstep in parallel universes. I'm sticking it out too because my bandmates are good musicians and good people.

Still, if we don't find a singer in a month or two it may be time to go. I need/want to play out but am not looking forward to going back to the woodshed. Still like someone said in another thread, I learned the songs for this band so now I own them.

 

[Stumbo]

Since you haven't found a vocalist yet, I suggest each of the band members work on their own. Get a vocal coach and at least you'll have some good backup singers once you find a lead singer or maybe, one of the current members can actually sing better than you know(after some serious lessons and practice).

Good luck.

 

[Marko 1]

I agree with Stumbo...

I agree that you guys should start singing the songs. I don’t know what kind of music you play, but harmonies really help a lot when the lead singer isn’t that great.

I’ll add that, personally, I don’t even like to hear one person singing the whole night; it’s refreshing to hear various singers, and I think a lot of people share this opinion.

Also, I’d hate to be in a band that depended that much on a lead singer, or any one person for that matter. He/she flakes, and you’re dead in the water.

I’d rather have a decent-sounding band where the members have some control their destiny instead of one person. We won’t even get into the attitudes and power trips that a lead singer can wield.

Just some of my thoughts.

 

[Raymeous]

I agree with Marko.

If you guys all start working on your vocal skills, not only can you have good backing vocals, you may find a better voice for certain songs. If it's a cover project this could be a huge benefit to sounding "just like the original"

On a more personal note (for you) if you get your vocal chops up it would just make you that much better a prospect for any bands you might try out for in the future.

I hope you can find the right singer for the current band since you seem to like them over all.

 

[ChrisB2]

Update: Well it looks like we have a singer/frontman.... for now. I guess we'll see how it pans out over the next couple of weeks. (Can you tell I'm not 100% convinced?)

re: the idea of the rest of us handling the vocals: Believe me, there isn't a singer/frontman among us worthy of the musicianship. You know, it's not all about the singing; there's image, banter, charisma, etc. to consider in addition to vocals. But thanks for the idea.

...still watching out for bass wanted ads.....

 

[ChrisB2]

Update 2: Sad to say, things haven't changed much. Eight months and counting now.

The guy I mentioned in the first update left us. He had never fronted a band, we had one "gig" that was not not a packed house and he decided the whole band thing wasn't for him. I tried to explain that the next gig would be better, but having never done this he doesn't have the "good gig" experiences that carry you through the stinkers and keep you interested, so he quit.

That was about a month ago. We're really hitting bedrock with our attempts to find someone this time, and the band is so desperate that they're pushing us to take on someone I feel is not up to snuff just to keep the wheels on. Since most of them are buddy-founders, they have this innate urge to make the band survive, which I don't have. They're all good musicians and I mentioned that we all could get positions with working bands, but they can't see past their baby dying. Argghhh.....

Definitely going to go on some auditions this time around....

 

[TBrett]

Update 2: Sad to say, things haven't changed much. Eight months and counting now.

The guy I mentioned in the first update left us. He had never fronted a band, we had one "gig" that was not not a packed house and he decided the whole band thing wasn't for him. I tried to explain that the next gig would be better, but having never done this he doesn't have the "good gig" experiences that carry you through the stinkers and keep you interested, so he quit.

That was about a month ago. We're really hitting bedrock with our attempts to find someone this time, and the band is so desperate that they're pushing us to take on someone I feel is not up to snuff just to keep the wheels on. Since most of them are buddy-founders, they have this innate urge to make the band survive, which I don't have. They're all good musicians and I mentioned that we all could get positions with working bands, but they can't see past their baby dying. Argghhh.....

Definitely going to go on some auditions this time around....

Wow, reading back over this thread, I can't believe that you've hung in there with these guys since August. Time to move on. Check out some of those working bands out there and make yourself happy. It's the holiday season, after all!