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Tip O' the Day: Learn one scale and you've learned seven.

IamGroot

IamGroot

Inactive
Jan 18, 2018
6,953
13,553
#1
I posted this earlier but got zilch response. So I'll try again.

Play the following scales in two octaves:

A7
Em7
G #11
C#m7b5
F#m b9b13
Bm b13


If you haven't picked up already, they are all just subsets of the D major scale. No need to learn new fingerings. Learn to interrelate scales back to the parent major or melodic/harmonic minor scale and one scale fingering is good for the seven related modes.

Using a more familiar key of C

C Maj7
Dm7
Em7b9b13
F #11
G7
Am b13
Bm7b5
 
#4
IamGroot said:
I posted this earlier but got zilch response. So I'll try again.

Play the following scales in two octaves:

A7
Em7
G #11
C#m7b5
F#m b9b13
Bm b13


If you haven't picked up already, they are all just subsets of the D major scale. No need to learn new fingerings. Learn to interrelate scales back to the parent major or melodic/harmonic minor scale and one scale fingering is good for the seven related modes.

Using a more familiar key of C

C Maj7
Dm7
Em7b9b13
F #11
G7
Am b13
Bm7b5
Click to expand...

Have not seen this, but hey, I'll sign up. Curious to see where this goes.

I understand the theory behind it. The A7 being the Dominant 5th of D Maj (Mixolydian), the Emin7 being the Major 2nd of D Maj (Dorian), and so on.

I am also aware of the 3 primary scale fingerings starting from the 1st finger, the 2nd/3rd finger and the 4th finger.

Also, the notes on the fingerboard are static.

I think what is giving me trouble with this is "scales in two octaves" and "one scale fingering." Even using my 5-string, running 2 octave scales from the notes in the first group (D Maj scale degrees 2 thru 7) has been somewhat of a challenge.

I'm probably missing something in translation, but curious to find out what it is exactly. Probably gonna be one of those V-8 moments.

Nice brain teaser!
 
#5
Hey, thanks for asking!

On fingering, I sent you a PM with 3 octave fingerings for C Major and G Mixolydian. I see you are a three finger player , so I can't help out much. I am a 4 finger Jaco meets Ray Brown clone and play some odd hybridized scales . The point is to settle in on a scale system(s) for najor scales that you are comfortable with.

How to find the related major scale. So if I asked you to play a Gm7 scale, I would immediately see that's a ii mode which points to F major. If I said a Bm b9b13 scale, I see immediately thats a iii mode pointing back to G. A C natural minor is a vi (m b13) which points back to Eb major. Honestly, I don't always use my head but find it immediately on my fingerboard - whichever works for you. Put your finger on the degree of the scale you are given and find the relative major.

How to Play the scale. Lets say I said Bm b9b13. You know automatically this is a G major scale. So start off on the B string on the 5 string or B note on the D string if using a 4. As soon as you reach G, play the rest of the scale up as if it was a G major scale, then add two more notes for A and B.

This system works well if you already know all the notes on the fingerboard and know the major scales in two or 3 octaves.

Hope this helps.
 
#6
IamGroot said:
I see you are a three finger player
Click to expand...

If you mean plucker, yes. If you mean fretter, no. Primarily a OFPF kind of guy. Actually, a 5 fret span, from the low F to A on the E string is no problem (covering 3 frets with my index and middle finger). I was fortunate enough to be blessed with long fingers.

I see more clearly where you are coming from now. I knew I had to be misinterpreting something. I was trying to start the scales from their natural position in the D Maj scale starting on the 5th fret of the A string. For example, I was starting the Emin7 from the 7th fret on the A string and playing up the minor scale starting from the 4th finger. Was ending up with too many notes on the G string and way too many position shifts.

I see where your method would really be helpful for those who play patterns. Like you, I target specific notes.

This was a great mental exercise tho. Thanks . . .
 
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#7
IamGroot said:
Play the following scales in two octaves:

A7
Em7
G #11
C#m7b5
F#m b9b13
Bm b13
Click to expand...
Im afraid you've lost me already. This is a list of chords, not scales.

IamGroot said:
they are all just subsets of the D major scale
Click to expand...
You lost me again. Yes, the A7 chord is the V chord in the key of D, but I can play many different scales to an A7 chord.
 
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#9
Yes, your terminology is absolutely correct. But when I open up my real book, it doesn't say Phrygian, Locrian, Mixolydian, it says chords . This post was intended to show something folks can use and I left out a step. As a session worker, you probably heard other people make the same "mistake".
 
#11
Scoops said:
I really don't understand this
Click to expand...

The concept is that the first scale that most folks learn to run quickly up and down the neck in two or three octaves (after pentatonic) is the major scale. The major scale is nice, but it doesn't work over seventh chords or minor 7 chords. So we learn fingerings for the other modes of the major (and harmonic & melodic minor scales ) to fit those other chords. But if we learn to relate a given mode back to its parent major scale (or harmonic or melodic minor chord), we can use the parent major scale fingering for those other modes.

Example: If you wanted to play an ascending scale in two or three octaves that fit over a G7 chord, the most common choice would be G mixolydian ( G A B C D E F G). For me, if it is in one octave, its no problems as its just a G major scale with the 7th lowered a half step (F# goes to F). But if I want to go 2 or three octaves, the fingering adjustments of F# to F trips me up if I need to play it fast. But I can play a C major scale (C D E F G A B C) in 3 octaves very easily. So I play a G major scale up to the first C note and then switch to a C major scale and run it up the rest of the neck. Why C major? Because G7 (G mixolydian) is the fifth mode of the C Major scale.

Likewise, if I want to play Dm7 (D dorian) in multiple octaves, I can play the C Major scale, just omit the first note (C).

I know all the mode fingerings for 3 octave major scales pretty well, but use this trick from time to time. Where this is really handy is the melodic minor modes (which unfortunately is a bit more complicated to relate as the parent mode. In a TB thread last year, using the Super Locrian mode was discussed. Sounds pretty intimidating until you realize you can play that mode by playing the melodic minor scale a fret up.
 
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#12
IamGroot said:
I posted this earlier but got zilch response. So I'll try again.

Play the following scales in two octaves:

A7
Em7
G #11
C#m7b5
F#m b9b13
Bm b13


If you haven't picked up already, they are all just subsets of the D major scale. No need to learn new fingerings. Learn to interrelate scales back to the parent major or melodic/harmonic minor scale and one scale fingering is good for the seven related modes.

Using a more familiar key of C

C Maj7
Dm7
Em7b9b13
F #11
G7
Am b13
Bm7b5
Click to expand...

I think you are listing a bunch of chords and calling them scales :) What gives groot?
 
#19
IamGroot said:
So I play a G major scale up to the first C note and then switch to a C major scale and run it up the rest of the neck.
Click to expand...
Ah, I get what you're saying now. That I can't do. I would find it very confusing to mentally switch to a C major scale during a G7 chord. It would be downright counterintuitive for this theoretical brain. I can play a G major scale with a flatted 7 all day long over a G7 chord, though.

But if it works for you, that's OK. There are many systems out there, with the same end purpose: to sound good when filling/running/improvising.
 
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#20
dreamadream99 said:
Ah, I get what you're saying now. That I can't do. I would find it very confusing to mentally switch to a C major scale during a G7 chord. It would be downright counterintuitive for this theoretical brain. I can play a G major scale with a flatted 7 all day long over a G7 chord, though.

But if it works for you, that's OK. There are many systems out there, with the same end purpose: to sound good when filling/running/improvising.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your feedback.
 

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