Tips for getting a fat hardcore/powerviolence bass tone?

[eropt07]

Hi TalkBass.com, I play bass in a powerviolence/beatdown hardcore band and I need to settle on a bass tone for our demo we'll be recording shortly. Bands I really dig are Weekend Nachos, Sex Prisoner, Internal, Wound Man, Nails, Full of Hell, and Crossed Out, their bass players tone are really what I'm chasing. I have no idea where to start with EQ, or just pedel settings. Should mention I don't use an amp, I just use a DI for recording, any specific amp I should look for? I'm looking for a combo amp, or should I buy a head+cab? I like the idea of getting a Fender rumble or Ampeg rocket bass amp, what watt would be the best?

Links to bands:







Gear:
Cort B4 active/passive bass with 2 soapbar pickups
B7K preamp/distortion
EHX Russian Big Muff (Prefer to find the good tone with this pedal)
ProCo Turbo Rat

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Keep it clean and let the sound engineer flavor to suit. It's easier to add it later than to fix what's already been done.

 

[eropt07]

Keep it clean and let the sound engineer flavor to suit. It's easier to add it later than to fix what's already been done.

Sound engineer is the guitarist haha, we're doing it completely DIY. I will ask him for some help though the next time we meet up, thank you for the reply!

 

[Microbass]

Get a DG X7.

 

[Citizen Nara]

Powerviolence? Keep the RAT always on, but don't distort it heavily. Play fast.

 

[Ritter667]

Get a Joyo Orthros (or Boss LS-2), a Joyo Orange Juice, and a Mosky Black Rat (or Mooer Black Secret, but the Mosky sounds better for bass).

Use the Mosky Black Rat in Turbo RAT mode and mix it, via the Joyo Orthros (or Boss LS-2), in parallel with the overdrive from the Joyo Orange Juice.

Adjust to taste.

Alternatively download this free RAT VST effect: TSE Audio - Software, copy the file to your DAW's VST folder, record the bass clean, copy the clean bass track, and use the RAT VST on one of those tracks, mixing the clean and distorted bass track in you DAW of choice to taste.

 

[ole Jason]

The Rat is a great choice. I like the HM-2 for that kind of stuff as well.

 

[HardNHeavy]

funny i use to listen to stuff like that all the time, but I like the tone in the beginning of this, dunno what effect it is tho probably something simple, back in the day my 8x10 had atleast 5 blown cones which gave me a natural distortion in my punk/metal 3pc band.

 

[carsonchilders]

I think you should run two DI lines for peace of mind.

Bass into DI then that into your pedals then into another DI.

That way you can be creative, experimental, and have fun while also having a clean safety track.

Plugins have come a long way. You should use an amp simulator inside your DAW of choice to figure out what you like. You can easily cycle through an SVT, B15, someimtes Mesa amplifier models at the push of a button. It'll be a good way to see what flavor you naturally enjoy.

 

[kleinenenten]

The Rat is a great choice. I like the HM-2 for that kind of stuff as well.

I agree - both of these would work. I'd say a Rat is likely a bit easier to dial in for a mix, and there are probably more readily available bass-friendly clones of Rats, but nothing beats the HM-2 for sheer ferocity. And seeing the style you're going for, ferocity may just be the order of the day...

funny i use to listen to stuff like that all the time, but I like the tone in the beginning of this, dunno what effect it is tho probably something simple, back in the day my 8x10 had atleast 5 blown cones which gave me a natural distortion in my punk/metal 3pc band.

Not sure about the current bass player, but Blacky of Voivod used a Rat. The Blower Box was made specifically for his tone, and does a great job of it. It's also pretty affordable for a boutique pedal, with the Deluxe version even better. Either would be a solid choice.

If you want some suggestions, here are some of my experiences for both HM-2 and Rat:

Rat
Magic/Dunwich Volt Thrower - there's even a clone in the classifieds at the moment, I believe. My #1 bass Rat. Tweaker's paradise.
Blue Colander Tremond - my #2 bass Rat. Also quite tweakable, but not quite as much as the VT. Plenty of bass, but can also do high gain.
Frost Giant Bass Mountain - #3, and a bit higher gain/treble focused compared to the Tremond, but lots of overlap.
Fuzzrocious Cat King - this one got a little too gnarly for me, i.e. I couldn't keep enough bass in the mix. But he offers blends etc., and is rather affordable. I had a stock one and was always curious about a blend.
Idiotbox Blower Box - great high gain Rat, the Deluxe is even better. A bit fizzy for my tastes, but it's well-regarded and affordable. As luck would have it, there's also a 25% off sale right now at his shop with the code "HOTAF2024" for everything currently in stock.

HM-2
Boss - Either the OG or the Waza. I just compared mine to each other the other day - I'd say the OG has slightly looser lows and less highs, with the Waza being slightly tighter overall and more treble. But really, both are super close to each other, as you'd expect. The original is my #3, with Waza being #4.
Arion Metal Master - an old clone of the HM-2 that's pretty fantastic! One of my favorites, and affordable when you can find it. More bass/low mids than most clones so it has great definition on the low end. My #2 bass HM-2.
Bear Amps Heavier Metal - boutique and a bit pricey, but absolutely kills it. It sounds underwhelming solo, but in the mix and absolutely stands out and is distinct. I was hesitant at first for this, but it's my #1 now.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[Ritter667]

I agree - both of these would work. I'd say a Rat is likely a bit easier to dial in for a mix, and there are probably more readily available bass-friendly clones of Rats, but nothing beats the HM-2 for sheer ferocity. And seeing the style you're going for, ferocity may just be the order of the day...

Not sure about the current bass player, but Blacky of Voivod used a Rat. The Blower Box was made specifically for his tone, and does a great job of it. It's also pretty affordable for a boutique pedal, with the Deluxe version even better. Either would be a solid choice.

If you want some suggestions, here are some of my experiences for both HM-2 and Rat:

Rat
Magic/Dunwich Volt Thrower - there's even a clone in the classifieds at the moment, I believe. My #1 bass Rat. Tweaker's paradise.
Blue Colander Tremond - my #2 bass Rat. Also quite tweakable, but not quite as much as the VT. Plenty of bass, but can also do high gain.
Frost Giant Bass Mountain - #3, and a bit higher gain/treble focused compared to the Tremond, but lots of overlap.
Fuzzrocious Cat King - this one got a little too gnarly for me, i.e. I couldn't keep enough bass in the mix. But he offers blends etc., and is rather affordable. I had a stock one and was always curious about a blend.
Idiotbox Blower Box - great high gain Rat, the Deluxe is even better. A bit fizzy for my tastes, but it's well-regarded and affordable. As luck would have it, there's also a 25% off sale right now at his shop with the code "HOTAF2024" for everything currently in stock.

HM-2
Boss - Either the OG or the Waza. I just compared mine to each other the other day - I'd say the OG has slightly looser lows and less highs, with the Waza being slightly tighter overall and more treble. But really, both are super close to each other, as you'd expect. The original is my #3, with Waza being #4.
Arion Metal Master - an old clone of the HM-2 that's pretty fantastic! One of my favorites, and affordable when you can find it. More bass/low mids than most clones so it has great definition on the low end. My #2 bass HM-2.
Bear Amps Heavier Metal - boutique and a bit pricey, but absolutely kills it. It sounds underwhelming solo, but in the mix and absolutely stands out and is distinct. I was hesitant at first for this, but it's my #1 now.

Hope this helps a bit!

EHX does a HM-2 clone too, with extras, such as semi parametric mid control and clean blend, The EHX Hell Melter :

 

[John Glue]

Hi TalkBass.com, I play bass in a powerviolence/beatdown hardcore band and I need to settle on a bass tone for our demo we'll be recording shortly. Bands I really dig are Weekend Nachos, Sex Prisoner, Internal, Wound Man, Nails, Full of Hell, and Crossed Out, their bass players tone are really what I'm chasing. I have no idea where to start with EQ, or just pedel settings. Should mention I don't use an amp, I just use a DI for recording, any specific amp I should look for? I'm looking for a combo amp, or should I buy a head+cab? I like the idea of getting a Fender rumble or Ampeg rocket bass amp, what watt would be the best?

Links to bands:







Gear:
Cort B4 active/passive bass with 2 soapbar pickups
B7K preamp/distortion
EHX Russian Big Muff (Prefer to find the good tone with this pedal)
ProCo Turbo Rat

Kind of stumbled on this but I’ll throw my two cents in here. I used to play bass in Nails…

My live rig in 2009-2011ish was an Acoustic 370 head into an Ampeg 810. I would run a ProCo Rat and turn it up loud. When we recorded Unsilent Death we flew to the studio and I didn’t bring anything with me, I just used what Kurt had in the studio. The studio bass rig was an Orange AD200 and an Orange Thunderverb 200 into 2 ampeg cabs. I think the pedal we used was a Boss Bass Overdrive. I used a warmoth p bass. Live and studio were two seperate deals. I think on the other albums we did with Kurt the main bass tone was the boss bass overdrive direct in with some of the amps mic’s mixed in.

My favorite live amps were Ampeg SVT classics. I eventually got an Ampeg Mti era SVT and was using a fulltone OCD drive pedal. Everything turned up really loud.

 

[kleinenenten]

EHX does a HM-2 clone too, with extras, such as semi parametric mid control and clean blend, The EHX Hell Melter :

They do, but I've heard almost nothing about it. I was debating picking one up recently. In theory, it actually looks very similar to the Earthbound Audio Throat Locust with its parametric mids and 3 band EQ, but even more flexible with the blend, gate, and boost built in. Both have 2 clipping options as well. I've been very intrigued by this one, and it would be one of the more affordable HM-2s. I'll probably get one some day and compare to my Throat Locust.

 

[Ritter667]

They do, but I've heard almost nothing about it. I was debating picking one up recently. In theory, it actually looks very similar to the Earthbound Audio Throat Locust with its parametric mids and 3 band EQ, but even more flexible with the blend, gate, and boost built in. Both have 2 clipping options as well. I've been very intrigued by this one, and it would be one of the more affordable HM-2s. I'll probably get one some day and compare to my Throat Locust.

I must admit I am not a big HM-2 fan.

For bass I feel it lacks definition, every sense of note definition just drown in a blur of distorted noise (though entirely different beasts it is the same issue I got with Big Muff style fuzzes). In fact I actually prefer the dreaded MT-2 Metal Zone over the HM-2 for bass.

Though my favorite high gain distortion for bass is the RAT, especially the Turbo RAT.

But the LED diode clipping mode and parametric mids on the EHX, might make it capable of more useful distortion sounds to me. I have no personal experience with the EHX though, but it does seem to get good reviews in general.

 

[groovaholic]

It really depends on what kind of tone you're after.

The clips from Internal show a really dominant bass sound.
The other bands have big, scooped guitar sounds that bury the bass a bit.

So I'd say work with your guitarist to figure out if the two sounds are supposed to work together or stand independently.

Personally, I like how Black Tusk balances the guitar and bass tone - they are distinct, but reinforce each other:

 

[Ender_rpm]

I think you should run two DI lines for peace of mind.

Bass into DI then that into your pedals then into another DI.

That way you can be creative, experimental, and have fun while also having a clean safety track.

Plugins have come a long way. You should use an amp simulator inside your DAW of choice to figure out what you like. You can easily cycle through an SVT, B15, someimtes Mesa amplifier models at the push of a button. It'll be a good way to see what flavor you naturally enjoy.

This is the way. If you want to get REALLY silly, you DI (for low end) then run a slightly overdriven bass amp and a VERY overdriven guitar amp onto to separate tracks, then mix as needed. If one were all DI, you can use a bass amp sim and a guitar amp sim with a low cut to simulate this.

 

[Pyrrho Epoche]

I dunno about your bass. I get my grindy, screetchy hardcore sound from a Stingray Special 4HH. The 5 way toggle gets me wherever I need, in any song. I use an orange amp sim oxford, roll back the treble and mids on my amp and use a hint of compressor.

 

[kleinenenten]

I must admit I am not a big HM-2 fan.

For bass I feel it lacks definition, every sense of note definition just drown in a blur of distorted noise (though entirely different beasts it is the same issue I got with Big Muff style fuzzes). In fact I actually prefer the dreaded MT-2 Metal Zone over the HM-2 for bass.

Though my favorite high gain distortion for bass is the RAT, especially the Turbo RAT.

But the LED diode clipping mode and parametric mids on the EHX, might make it capable of more useful distortion sounds to me. I have no personal experience with the EHX though, but it does seem to get good reviews in general.

I'll admit that my Rats get more use for sure, as they are more broadly usable in mixes. But if I'm talking pure unadulterated heaviness, and I just want sonic destruction with a smile on my face, nothing does that for me like an HM-2!

I absolutely LOVE the HM-2 and all of its glory, but you've nailed the problems with it on bass for sure. It's a challenge to make it work in the mix. I've found that for my guitar needs, a simple 4 knob clone is perfect - the added features usually get in the way. But on bass, I've spent years finding the "perfect" HM-2 tone. The Bear Amps Heavier Metal is it for me. (At least so far...) The Dunwich DIY HM-2 is also excellent, but mine needs some tending to, as one of the knobs doesn't function properly. Then it may be #1. But the Arion Metal Master is no slouch at all, and beats out pretty much every other clone on bass, and for much less money. If you find one cheap, give it a shot as I think it's worth it. If it matters, I also NEVER run the HM-2 with the knobs maxed. On bass, I find that a standard 4 knob setup needs less gain (usually between 9:00 and 10:30) and a small reduction in highs from max. I max lows, and use volume to taste. This keeps plenty of bite in the signal, but keeps the bass clear enough without being washed away by too much treble. On guitar, I do similar, but it's usually around 10:30 to noon on gain, and with the high and low knob positions from earlier swapped. It does the opposite - keeps the lows from overtaking the distortion and gives me a clearer attack with guitar.

Oh, and this is for a very heavy cutting tone on either - quite similar to the old Swedish death metal bands, but not quite exactly that. It's NOT shoegaze or whatever tones, though, I'm pretty sure. Not overly familiar with that genre.

Anyway, hope some of this makes sense and helps anyone dialing in an HM-2!

 

[Aledal]

It's been a long time since I played this kind of thing but having the right strings and setup (I would use brand new heavy gauge steel rounds and ensure there's no slack on the strings if you're tuning below eb, might want to raise the action a bit if you're hammering at the strings), I think all the pedals that folks have recommended would have the grit you're looking for on them and your B7K might work for the low dist always on Rat sound, the Muff might be too fuzzy for what you're aiming for, esp if you're throwing any chords in along the way.

EQ -wise, play around with -2/5db some off the lower freq, add a little on the mids for the bite and fix the higher freq to wherever sounds right with the bass you're using but as the people mention, if you record on two channels you can mess around with eq in post to your hearts content. Also maybe set a LPF to about 50Hz depending on how the guitars layer over it.

NB: I am no sound engineer and would immediately defer to one of the thousand or so people on this site who are better qualified to answer this than me!

 

[Iommian]

Kind of stumbled on this but I’ll throw my two cents in here. I used to play bass in Nails…

My live rig in 2009-2011ish was an Acoustic 370 head into an Ampeg 810. I would run a ProCo Rat and turn it up loud. When we recorded Unsilent Death we flew to the studio and I didn’t bring anything with me, I just used what Kurt had in the studio. The studio bass rig was an Orange AD200 and an Orange Thunderverb 200 into 2 ampeg cabs. I think the pedal we used was a Boss Bass Overdrive. I used a warmoth p bass. Live and studio were two seperate deals. I think on the other albums we did with Kurt the main bass tone was the boss bass overdrive direct in with some of the amps mic’s mixed in.

My favorite live amps were Ampeg SVT classics. I eventually got an Ampeg Mti era SVT and was using a fulltone OCD drive pedal. Everything turned up really loud.

Really appreciate this info! Was able to see you play at the Middle East in Boston like 5 years ago, was one of my favorite shows I went to when I lived up there.