Tips to avoid losing place in music

[FearNoEvil65]

This may be simplistic and you're probably already doing it, but I try to put the music stand more in front of my left hand rather than right in front of me so if I glance at my hand for position, the music is kind of in the background if you can understand what I'm trying to say.
I can kind of see my left hand with the music right there and sometimes don't need to glance down and back up in front then lose my place like that.

 

[Paul New]

Big Band is mainly what I do. When I have access to the book, I practice the charts. I also have books of transcribed lines that I can practice reading. Do it as much as you can stand.

And do definitely make sure you are seeing well. I have one pair of dedicated music reading glasses for upright and another for electric because of the different distances.

I don’t get lost anymore, but know what it feels like for sure. Not fun. I’ve missed repeats, missed signs, missed codas, gone back to signs a line early, glanced at my hand and completely lost my place, and every other way you can get lost, many times.

But you will get better at it. Repetition, practice, is the key

 

[Pacman]

Getting lost in the charts in big band performances (I'm a strong reader) was my first clue that I needed glasses. I realized that I wasn't able to refocus at the shorter distance fast enough.

 

[turf3]

I remember looking into the case of an older trumpet playing friend (one of those big trumpet cases that opens from the top and holds a trumpet, flugel, and some mutes) and seeing a little rack of glasses labeled "Orchestra", "Low Fronts", "High Fronts", etc. Orchestra is tricky because you've got to read the music AND be able to see the conductor.

And now I'm pretty much there too.

 

[IanStephenson]

It gets easier...

If the scores are available as PDF (increasingly common - even for shows where you've paid to hire the books, MD's often can get you a dodgy digital copy), I found it MUCH easier to read from an iPad. No page turns!!! and you only see one page at a time so less to get lost in. And no messing round between songs.

I've done full shows on a regular size iPad - back when my eyes were better, but with glasses I could still do it. Crop the margins so the staves are as large as possible. I've been doing more reading recently so upgraded to a big iPad Pro, but it's a 1st gen so only cost me $100. M-Vave page turner pedals are $20 and you're in business!

 

[turf3]

It gets easier...

If the scores are available as PDF (increasingly common - even for shows where you've paid to hire the books, MD's often can get you a dodgy digital copy), I found it MUCH easier to read from an iPad. No page turns!!! and you only see one page at a time so less to get lost in. And no messing round between songs.

I've done full shows on a regular size iPad - back when my eyes were better, but with glasses I could still do it. Crop the margins so the staves are as large as possible. I've been doing more reading recently so upgraded to a big iPad Pro, but it's a 1st gen so only cost me $100. M-Vave page turner pedals are $20 and you're in business!

OK, but OP's playing in a rehearsal big-band, not musical theater.

Probably with old paper charts, many of which may never have been digitized. I suppose if you can take the book home, you could scan, one page at a time, but many of us don't feel motivated to spend that kind of time. Given that sheet music is usually odd sized and in big-band books they'll all be taped, you'll have to manually lay every single page on the scanner, one at a time.

A quick estimate:

If the book has 100 charts, average 2.5 pages, that's 250 pages to be scanned per book. If there are 17 books (5 saxes, 4 trumpets, 4 bones, piano bass guitar and drums), that's 4250 pages to be scanned. As noted, most of them you'll have to scan one page at a time, so assume 8 seconds per page (total WAG) gives you 34,000 seconds or 9 1/2 hours, steady work, to scan all of it.

And a 100 page big band book isn't that big.

However, just scanning your OWN book would be a doable proposition.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Brilliant advice above. Big +1.

I’d add
- find a mentor in the group to guide you. The BL might be ok… but sometimes that unassuming & really humble seasoned player will pinpoint exactly what you need at exactly the right time. Ask the BL who would be best to mentor you. This’ll earn you a LOT of patience from them.
(I’ve done a lot of mentoring younger players at church. I find it as rewarding as the gigging).


-Get a quality recording based on the exact chart. Most are really easy to find with some clever Google-Fu.
Song title & composer/arrangers name is often enough.

now I have identified that I need to do a better job of mentally tracking my position on the sheet music to be ready for any needed hand position jump at any time, especially when I'm less familiar with a piece.

Write on your chart where your position shifts will be. Practice playing/reading the 4-8 bars before and after using an audio loop of your recording.
You can save these loops on certain apps for future home practice.

Hopefully my group will continue to tolerate my deficiencies for awhile longer as I work on these new skills! They had to put up with too many mistakes from me last night, but hopefully I noticed them much more than everyone else.

See comment at top.

But we might play 40 charts at a gig so it's a lot to be thoroughly familiar with. I'm running into these issues even with music I have practiced 10 or 20 times. I think it is partly the pressure of performance (both at rehearsal and at gigs)

Have you done home practice at performance level?
You want to simulate gig conditions as closely as possible.
- if you stand, stand the whole time you’d be playing.
- run your complete setlist as you’d perform it. No breaks between songs, 20 min rest between sets.
- note where you get tired, sore, make mistakes, etc.
- build mental stamina & focus by regularly doing 40 different songs per night.
- if possible, do it at the same time of day you’d be gigging eg. 8.30pm til 11.00pm.
- wear same clothes, same meals/ drinks as on a gig, same temperature & volume.
- stay hydrated.
- snack between sets if your blood sugar is prone to dropping.
- get good rest a few hours before you play. Being physically & mentally exhausted means your performance suffers.
- do breathing and mindfulness exercises before & in set breaks.

For parts like that I sometimes lightly pencil in a horizontal line across the whole page every 2, 3 or 4 staves (depending on the page formatting), just so my peripheral vision is a little more precisely aware of where I am on the page if I glance down at my left hand then return my eyes to the page.

Excellent tip. I don’t do this on charts, but have used it for public speaking from written notes.

Having a reference recording is always helpful to me especially with more complicated charts. When I was struggling with jazz song forms it was a drummer that suggested keeping the melody and or lyrics to keep in step.

See above.

I can kind of see my left hand with the music right there and sometimes don't need to glance down and back up in front then lose my place like that.

This really does help. I lift neck so it’s more angled and closer to my line of sight of the sheet music.

I used 2 music stands for longer chars of 4-5 pages. (I really hate page turning notated sheet music.

 

[fdeck]

My main band is a big-band. Getting lost is a thing that can happen. It will get better.

One thing I do is to lightly darken the bar lines every 4 or 8 bars, because most charts fall into that pattern. I also put numbers over the measures if a pattern is repeated (many well copied charts have this already). If it's something weird like a 9 bar phrase, I mark the number 9 (or whatever, you get the picture).

I mark what instruments are coming in at each section.

I scan my charts and use a tablet at gigs so I can use a page turning pedal. It's 20 new charts each month. That's manageable.

Cheat. If needed I can glance over to the wind parts and see where they have rest sections or patterns that I can listen for.

If all else fails, ask. Last Thursday, a chart started with a long piano solo, and I mis counted. I just asked the trombonist next to me: "Where are we?"

 

[sean_on_bass]

I'm looking for some tips on how to avoid losing my place while reading music.

I'm playing with a big band jazz group and we play from sheet music (not charts). The music is written out with some places for improvised walking bass. 2 to 3 pages is typical.

I have done 3 gigs so far with the group and my biggest problem I have is losing my place in the music. I think I may be skipping a line, probably when I look down at my left hand to check my position. I can't always hear the group well due to poor sound conditions in the room, so I need to be able to stay on track measure-by-measure. Recovery by listening won't always work. I don't have severe nerves but that does contribute some to my difficulty playing live. I'm actively working on improving my concentration while playing, but have a way to go. So looking for any techniques to help.

I thought maybe I could color code the rows sort of like a spreadsheet with alternating white/gray rows.

Maybe just numbering the rows with a marker, 1, 2, 3... could help as well.

One of those might help track where I am when I look away and return.

Any other ideas?

Learn to not have to look at your left hand. Taking your eyes off the sheet is the problem.

Couple other thoughts:

-Study the music ahead of time to know what to expect
-Read larger blocks of measures rather than measure by measure. ie look at 4 bars instead of one.
-Always look over the whole chart before playing, studying the landmarks/repeats/codas/key changes. understand the lay of the land.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I avoid being on the wrong page by memorizing everything.

while ideal, in a big band you can expect to have a new chart put in front of you sometimes with no time to prepare

 

[mbrancalion]

I'm mainly a section orchestral violin player, these days.

I seem to have developed some form of reading dislexya, with age. I always mark important references into my parts. No shame in that.
In particular i easily tend to skip ripetition and structure marks, word indications (dynamics, pizzicato, etc).
Nice visible marks, often different colors, and life gets easier.

But, as others wrote, seeing well is the most important cure. I have eyeglasses made specifically for focusing at score distance.
And my Vekkia led lamp gives the world of contrast i need.

And: be sure to put the stand in a way that seeing the director's movements (if you have one) is quite in line with reading.

 

[skycruiser]

Since posting this thread I have been practicing mostly the mental tricks to retain my place in the music - taking mental note of line position on the page, and frequently noting measure numbers or section markers. As much as possible I also look ahead, but I'm also becoming much more familiar with the music with extensive practice, making it easier to stay on track. I added a few more clear directions on my copies in a few places.

We had our first gig of the year last night, my 4th with this group. My confidence level was quite a bit higher than it was at previous gigs and I think I'm playing with better feel, groove and adding some personal touches. It's hard to say how much my improved focus has been beneficial or if it is more due to the increasing familiarity. I'll definitely continue to practice and implement the suggested tips provided here since it does seem to be helping me make progress.

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

 

[skycruiser]

OK, but OP's playing in a rehearsal big-band, not musical theater.

Probably with old paper charts, many of which may never have been digitized. I suppose if you can take the book home, you could scan, one page at a time, but many of us don't feel motivated to spend that kind of time. Given that sheet music is usually odd sized and in big-band books they'll all be taped, you'll have to manually lay every single page on the scanner, one at a time.

A quick estimate:

If the book has 100 charts, average 2.5 pages, that's 250 pages to be scanned per book. If there are 17 books (5 saxes, 4 trumpets, 4 bones, piano bass guitar and drums), that's 4250 pages to be scanned. As noted, most of them you'll have to scan one page at a time, so assume 8 seconds per page (total WAG) gives you 34,000 seconds or 9 1/2 hours, steady work, to scan all of it.

And a 100 page big band book isn't that big.

However, just scanning your OWN book would be a doable proposition.

We have close to 200 charts but fortunately they are all available as PDFs. But I'm old school and prefer paper with markings. Before each gig I prepare a gig book using the set list. Some guys in the group use ipad type devices but it's not for me.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I'm looking for some tips on how to avoid losing my place while reading music.

I'm playing with a big band jazz group and we play from sheet music (not charts). The music is written out with some places for improvised walking bass. 2 to 3 pages is typical.

I have done 3 gigs so far with the group and my biggest problem I have is losing my place in the music. I think I may be skipping a line, probably when I look down at my left hand to check my position. I can't always hear the group well due to poor sound conditions in the room, so I need to be able to stay on track measure-by-measure. Recovery by listening won't always work. I don't have severe nerves but that does contribute some to my difficulty playing live. I'm actively working on improving my concentration while playing, but have a way to go. So looking for any techniques to help.

I thought maybe I could color code the rows sort of like a spreadsheet with alternating white/gray rows.

Maybe just numbering the rows with a marker, 1, 2, 3... could help as well.

One of those might help track where I am when I look away and return.

Any other ideas?

If you think reading charts is tough now, wait until you get bifocals..LOL!!

Seriously, I was in a Corporate Event Highend Wedding band playing with conservancy grads who were rather self indulgent arrangers known for multi page codas, and repeats. 3-4 pages per song, plus a few 5 page charts. Well, I’m dyslexic with ADHD. Tons of fun

After my first gig with the band, and outdoors at that, ended with winds in 30mph range, I went out and bought an iPad 12” Pro and an AirTurn page turner. The second thing I did was taking a pocket recorder to practice and recording all the songs. Then at home I played along with the recordings while reading the charts. After a while I didn’t really need the charts but followed along just to make sure.

Hope this helps and best wishes.

 

[skycruiser]

If you think reading charts is tough now, wait until you get bifocals..LOL!!

Seriously, I was in a Corporate Event Highend Wedding band playing with conservancy grads who were rather self indulgent arrangers known for multi page codas, and repeats. 3-4 pages per song, plus a few 5 page charts. Well, I’m dyslexic with ADHD. Tons of fun

After my first gig with the band, and outdoors at that, ended with winds in 30mph range, I went out and bought an iPad 12” Pro and an AirTurn page turner. The second thing I did was taking a pocket recorder to practice and recording all the songs. Then at home I played along with the recordings while reading the charts. After a while I didn’t really need the charts but followed along just to make sure.

Hope this helps and best wishes.

I don't think I mentioned this above but my eyesight is a problem. I have 3 sets of glasses - bifocals, reading glasses (prescription) and a set of progressives. The progressives are probably the best in terms of being able to switch between distance and sheet-music reading distance, but the reading area of the lens is too small so jumps are difficult. I have to track my place in the music by moving my head. The bifocals I have don't have the right prescription for the reading area - the music stand is a little too far away to be clear. Plus the shape of the glasses is not right - I'd have to be looking down my nose. So I tend to use the prescription reading glasses since they happen to have the right lenses at the distance of my music stand, but I can't see anything clearly when I look up from the stand. (But our group doesn't have a director so I don't really have to look up much). The glasses situation really is a mess that I haven't figured out how to solve.

I have seen there is a special type of glasses called "executive" lens with a very large lower section that goes up a little higher than standard bificals and goes all the way across the lens. They would probably be perfect for this situation, but I would have to make sure to get the right prescription to match music stand reading distance. I think standard readers are for closer reading.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I don't think I mentioned this above but my eyesight is a problem. I have 3 sets of glasses - bifocals, reading glasses (prescription) and a set of progressives. The progressives are probably the best in terms of being able to switch between distance and sheet-music reading distance, but the reading area of the lens is too small so jumps are difficult. I have to track my place in the music by moving my head. The bifocals I have don't have the right prescription for the reading area - the music stand is a little too far away to be clear. Plus the shape of the glasses is not right - I'd have to be looking down my nose. So I tend to use the prescription reading glasses since they happen to have the right lenses at the distance of my music stand, but I can't see anything clearly when I look up from the stand. (But our group doesn't have a director so I don't really have to look up much). The glasses situation really is a mess that I haven't figured out how to solve.

I have seen there is a special type of glasses called "executive" lens with a very large lower section that goes up a little higher than standard bificals and goes all the way across the lens. They would probably be perfect for this situation, but I would have to make sure to get the right prescription to match music stand reading distance. I think standard readers are for closer reading.

View attachment 7403640

I use multi focal Contacts, Coopervision Biofinity. Basically it’s contact lenses version of LASIK’s. It’s the closest thing to natural vision I’ve come up with.

Of course it’s a lot easier to change out and clean glasses than contacts. And then there is the issue of getting them in and out, not to mention the possibility for them to inadvertently come out leaving one with compromised vision.

But, I keep an extra set of contacts in my gig bag as well as a pair of glasses and small travel bottle of contact cleaner with a contact holder.

One last thing I’ll mention my contacts cost about $250 net of rebates for a one year supple of lenses. Lenses for progressive lenses and frames?