I like unlined. I bought a beautiful koa fretless from Carvin with lines, but they drove me nuts, so I carefully took the plastic lines out and filled them in with a mixture of SuperGlue and ebony dust. You can still see faint lines in good light up close.
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to be line, or unlined...
- Thread starter nixrick
- Start date
Okay. I found an unlined samick in a pawnshop, and bought it. I love the way it plays, but i've noticed that the roundwounds are already starting to wear the fretboard. How big a problem is this? Do i need to go to flatwounds immediatly? Also, the pj pickups in it are a little harsh for what i want the bass for. Can anyone reccomend a nice aftermarket piezo bridge so i can get some more natural tones out of this monster?
I'd recommend half rounds; d'addario makes them. I have a composite board on my Roscoe so I use rounds! Ha!
Thelonius-
PLASTIC lines?! Caramba, dude!
I like my lined Warmoth neck(w/ WOOD lines)...to me, it's all about looks. Really, it's irrelevant 'cause I usually play with my eyes closed.(that or I'm scoping out the honeys in the crowd)
Waaayyy back in the '80s, whenever I bought a Warmoth neck(4 times), I specifically asked for NO dots(this was befor everybody else, too)
From a distance, my basses looked "fretless"...people told me that, I dug it; what can I say, sometimes I am a shallow putz!
D
Hey Get unlined, if you need an intonation help just get some thin tape stuff if i knew what it was called i'd tell ya but i don't i have it on the d,a,e,b [1st finger on all strings] on my cello so that it anchors my hand into a position where i am more likely to get the notes in tune. well have fun
Originally posted by Gard
By the way, he's got a 'bone I've never seen before, it's got BOTH a slide, and valves.....he can apparantly use it either way. Man, someone needs to come up with that for bass....retractable frets or something along those lines, that'd be quite cool.
Gard,
I've seen those before. It may be an unofficial name but I think it's called a Superbone.
Also, though perhaps I was just dreaming and am about to give away the copyright to a version of your idea, but I swear I remember something about a fretted bass with a (don't laugh) metal fingerboard and these thin removable magnetic plates that would fit between the frets, hence making it a fretless...
Originally posted by Stingray5
Gard,
I've seen those before. It may be an unofficial name but I think it's called a Superbone.
Also, though perhaps I was just dreaming and am about to give away the copyright to a version of your idea, but I swear I remember something about a fretted bass with a (don't laugh) metal fingerboard and these thin removable magnetic plates that would fit between the frets, hence making it a fretless...
Stingray -
Yup, Superbone, that's what they call it. Talked to Ernie ('bone player in my band) this weekend about it (he really dug the story Bruce told about the 'bone players and "fretted trombones"
). Thanks for the answer though.And I think you may be thinking about the Novax System that was around back in the 80's, had several different available fretboards (one of which was a metal fretless one) that were attached to the neck through some magnetic device. Apparantly the idea was a bust, as to make the whole thing work you had to take so much wood off the neck it made it very VERY unstable. Bummer. Besides, what I'm thinking about would be something you could do on the fly.....push a button or something. Play the verses with fretless, choruses with fretted. And not have to wear the John Turner Signature Boat Anchor to do it
. Well, a guy can dream, can't he? 
Originally posted by Gard
what I'm thinking about would be something you could do on the fly.....push a button or something. Play the verses with fretless, choruses with fretted. And not have to wear the John Turner Signature Boat Anchor to do it
Ha ha ha ha! That's hilarious! Are you listening John?
I see what you're saying about the fretless on the fly thing. I've heard some of those Fretless emulation pedals that sound pretty good, but it's just not the same...
Hmm... motorized retractable frets. You may be onto something...
[Edited by Stingray5 on 08-23-2000 at 09:12 PM]
SHHHH....he might hear you and drop that thing on my toes or something....
[/B][/QUOTE]I see what you're saying about the fretless on the fly thing. I've heard some of those Fretless emulation pedals that sound pretty good, but it's just not the same...[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, you can't do all the neat tricks like sliding harmonics, glissing into notes, and getting vibrato in both directions with them damn metal bars in the way.
[/B][/QUOTE]Hmm... motorized retractable frets. You may be onto something...
[/B][/QUOTE]Well, it's pretty obviously a pipe dream....but it's my little pipe dream.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
Originally posted by john turner
hey, that's the ACME John Turner SUPER-GENIUS Signature Boat Anchor. and don't you forget it.
...I'm STILL laughing!!!
Hey John, did you catch that &*#^&%&%$ roadrunner yet?
I wanna know where the "John Turner" came from, I thought your first name was Wiley, middle initial E., Mr. Coyote.
BEEP BEEP!!!
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
Originally posted by john turner
all part of my SUPER-GENIUS plan...
Well, then....that explains everything.
By the way, do you know where I can buy some of that ACME "Hole in a Bottle" stuff????
BEEP BEEP!!!
- Aug 25, 2000
- 1,836
- 28
- 66
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars
Too late for what? IMHO there is absolutely nothing "wrong" with having a lined fretless bass. Your intonation needs to be excellent in order to play fretless sucessfully, and how you attain that good intonation does not matter. A lined fretless is not a crutch, and you're still a real man (or woman) if you have one. With or without lines, you still have to listen to insure proper intonation. Don't believe me? Pick up a lined fretless bass. Find the open string octave harmonic above the 12th fret. Now place your finger directly on the fret line marker. Is it correct? If not your bass may not be intonated properly in relation to the lines. You still need to listen. The lines are a target, more or less. Now place a finger on any line marker. Merely roll your finger, without sliding, back and forth ever so slightly. Hear the pitch change? That's how precise you need to be for proper intonation. If fret lines help, more power to ya!
I don't mean this as a slam against double bass players, but I am amazed at how many upright players, even those holding down very high profile jazz gigs, have some fairly serious intonation problems, especially in the upper registers. Some of these cats would benefit from a lined fingerboard.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
i hear ya here, man. this actually bothers me badly when i go to see jazz combos, more often then not the bass player will be out 15%-20% of the time. that becomes hard for me to listen to.
on that topic, i remember being at a nashville namm show, at one of the nighttime shows, and this individual got up to perform alone on electric upright with some effects and loops - this guy is sorta known as a semi-name player, although not really a chops hound. anyway, sounded like he had bricks of cheese in his ears - he was all over the place, very embarassing, and hard for me to listen to. then next up is steve bailey, who's intonation is the closest to perfect i've ever heard, and it was like night and day.
- Aug 25, 2000
- 1,836
- 28
- 66
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Sadowsky Guitars
No matter how great your ears are, you can't hear the note before you play it. This means that whether or not your fretless has lines, you're mainly relying on muscle memory to nail the note dead on. If you're playing a fast sixteenth note passage, you don't have the time to adjust your intonation merely by listening, you have to know your fingerboard physically. Don't misunderstand, the ability to hear the proper intonation is paramount. You still have to have the ability to hear whether or not you're playing in tune. But as you play fretless more and more, your fingers actually "remember" the proper spacing for good intonation, especially as you move up the neck. I played a de-fretted Fender Precision exclusively for about six years. On a de-fretted bass you actually have to play slightly behind the line because the height of the fret figured into the original placement. The point being, I still had to listen. Eventually I became so comfortable, and developed my muscle memory to the point that I rarely needed to look at the neck. I recently acquired a Cort B5FL with no fret lines, and it definitely took me a while to feel comfortable. The process would have been more expeditious had there been lines. But again, the only relevant evidence that you are playing with good intonation comes from your ears. If you can't hear that your intonation isn't what it should be, fret lines aren't going to save you. But if you're inexperienced and want to try playing fretless, IMHO you shouldn't be afraid to go with a lined fretless bass.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
oh, i agree with most of what you've said, the only caveat that i have is again that the lines, to me, were distracting in ways that were unforseen, at least to me. another fact about lined instruments that you alluded to in your post is that, while with a fretted bass you should fret right behind the fretwire, with a lined fretless, you should fret right on the line. i've found, back in the day when i played lined fretless, that that would confuse me sometimes at a gig, and i would tend to either be flat or over-compensate, based on the geography of where i was as opposed to what i was hearing.
another thing that is cool that i've seen bill conklin do, as well as a few other luthiers, is use dark strips of wood on dark fingerboards for the lines. this way, one can see where one is going but, from a distance, the finger board looks unlined. on my fretless 8 string, the highest octave has lines (frets 24-36)
you can sorta see it on here. i really like this, especially since the frets are so close together that high. interesting sound up there, sorta like a cello played pizz.
I kinda agree with JT here, and with Craig (how's that for fearlessness!! 
).
I have a lined fretless 6, but not by choice. It was a fretted at one point in it's miserable (if I play it, a bass MUST be miserable ) life, but I decided to go bald a few years back and had the damn obstructive metal bars removed and replaced with rosewood veneer.
It is nice at the beginning of a passage or shift to have a "roadmap" to at least get in the right ballpark, note wise. That said, if I rely on the lines themselves for intonation, I'm in deep doo-doo, especially during a passage of quick 16th's.
I think that actually there are two very important factors, one of which hasn't been mentioned yet, in getting good intonation on fretless. The obvious one is trusting your ears (and hopefully having trustworthy ears, but that's another topic). The less obvious thing is motor memory. If you practice your basics, scales/modes and arpeggios, you'll find that your fingers get "eyes" and are able to start nailing the notes, and in tune, if you just LET them. I've found that when I "press" onstage, TRY to play in tune, I start to have difficulty. Conversly, when I just play, relax and enjoy the moment, and trust my hands and ears, I almost always nail my intonation. But, the only way to get to that point is to really do the "donkey work" for a while, preferably in a room where you can't harm innocent bystanders .
My next fretless will be unlined, with side markers where the "frets" would be. At least that's the plan......
).I have a lined fretless 6, but not by choice. It was a fretted at one point in it's miserable (if I play it, a bass MUST be miserable
) life, but I decided to go bald a few years back and had the damn obstructive metal bars removed and replaced with rosewood veneer. It is nice at the beginning of a passage or shift to have a "roadmap" to at least get in the right ballpark, note wise. That said, if I rely on the lines themselves for intonation, I'm in deep doo-doo, especially during a passage of quick 16th's.
I think that actually there are two very important factors, one of which hasn't been mentioned yet, in getting good intonation on fretless. The obvious one is trusting your ears (and hopefully having trustworthy ears, but that's another topic
). The less obvious thing is motor memory. If you practice your basics, scales/modes and arpeggios, you'll find that your fingers get "eyes" and are able to start nailing the notes, and in tune, if you just LET them. I've found that when I "press" onstage, TRY to play in tune, I start to have difficulty. Conversly, when I just play, relax and enjoy the moment, and trust my hands and ears, I almost always nail my intonation. But, the only way to get to that point is to really do the "donkey work" for a while, preferably in a room where you can't harm innocent bystanders .My next fretless will be unlined, with side markers where the "frets" would be. At least that's the plan......
actually jaco's main bass was lined because it was a fender jazz FRETTED that he personally took the frets out of himself. I've heard a couple stories behind his sudden decision to do that, and a lot of go back to him being dared to before a gig.
JP
No matter how great your ears are, you can't hear the note before you play it./
Quote by Craig Garfinkel
I have to go along with Craig on this one. Any one that thinks lines are not needed should plug into a tuner and hit just one note. Have someone else watch the tuner. Hit a D note on the G string. I'd be willing to bet that not a single one of us can hit the note on pitch. If you are starting a song on the root note how do you make that note without a reference, be it a line or a dot on the neck? Just try it before you decide how accurate you really are.
Quote by Craig Garfinkel
I have to go along with Craig on this one. Any one that thinks lines are not needed should plug into a tuner and hit just one note. Have someone else watch the tuner. Hit a D note on the G string. I'd be willing to bet that not a single one of us can hit the note on pitch. If you are starting a song on the root note how do you make that note without a reference, be it a line or a dot on the neck? Just try it before you decide how accurate you really are.
