Double Bass To drill or not to drill.....

[SAlcott]

I have two fine basses, both with capoed C extensions. One (A) has the string passing through a hole in the scroll, the other (B) the currently fashionable two-pulley system that eliminates the need for the hole. Both extensions work well. The two-pulley system is a nice piece of engineering and works fine until you try to install a previously used string that has the inevitable kink or two from being wound around the tuner. With hole-in-the-scroll, you just push it through, stick the end in the hole in the shaft, and tune. The fun with the other system begins with getting the string through the hole behind the top pulley. Once that's accomplished, you have to figure out how to get the kinky string down the little tunnel and out the hole by the second pulley. I can usually change all four strings on bass A in the time it took to install the extension string on bass B. Bottom line, IMO this whole thing about not drilling the scroll is just too precious. If the extension is removed, the hole is easily plugged and varnished over. Every old bass has likely had numerous repairs in its life far more drastic and invasive than a 3/8" (maximum) hole in the scroll.

 

[Don Kasper]

I have two fine basses, both with capoed C extensions. One (A) has the string passing through a hole in the scroll, the other (B) the currently fashionable two-pulley system that eliminates the need for the hole. Both extensions work well. The two-pulley system is a nice piece of engineering and works fine until you try to install a previously used string that has the inevitable kink or two from being wound around the tuner. With hole-in-the-scroll, you just push it through, stick the end in the hole in the shaft, and tune. The fun with the other system begins with getting the string through the hole behind the top pulley. Once that's accomplished, you have to figure out how to get the kinky string down the little tunnel and out the hole by the second pulley. I can usually change all four strings on bass A in the time it took to install the extension string on bass B. Bottom line, IMO this whole thing about not drilling the scroll is just too precious. If the extension is removed, the hole is easily plugged and varnished over. Every old bass has likely had numerous repairs in its life far more drastic and invasive than a 3/8" (maximum) hole in the scroll.

Drill, Baby, Drill!
(Mine is drilled....)
Good Luck.

 

[stefaniw80401]

I agree with both your rationale about doing the repair and Don's post above. Try making a whisker wire, similar to electrician's fish wire and tape the string end to it push it thru the extension and threading it into the peg.

 

[SAlcott]

The tunnel is small and the string had a couple of curves from previous use that just didn't want to co-operate. Once I finally got it started, needlenose pliers and foul language eventually got the job done.

 

[stefaniw80401]

Yeah, I have a Robertson extension, it's very nice, hole in the scroll. Used strings are fiddly even thru the hole-in-the-scroll. I also use needle nose and sweat a bit. Extensions are a pita sometimes

 

[stefaniw80401]

My E+ tuner machine peg has wallered its scroll cheek hole a bit, because the string pulls the peg/cog away from the worm, and it is sloppy to tune. I've been toying with the idea of finding a nylon or Teflon bushing? Have you seen that done before?

My machines are separate worm and cog, where the peg goes thru the opposite cheek and held with a leather/brass screw. So I had the idea of replacing the E+ (or all the machines) with a plate style machines like Sloans or rubners which maintain their alignments because the worm and cog are mounted together on a backing plate. What do you think?

 

[SAlcott]

I'm careful to have a straight pull, lined up with the hole. No problems.

 

[stefaniw80401]

I think you misunderstood? I guess I hijacked your hole-in-the-scroll thread.

I'm talking about the holes in the side cheeks of the peg box where the tuning machine peg (brass shaft) goes thru. On the extended string the string tension is upward, pulling the cog gear upward and away from the worm. This load is therefore transferred from the worm gear to the shaft hole. Over the years, the hole now is out of round and needs to be bushed.

 

[SAlcott]

Ah-never had that problem.

 

[Don Hergert]

So, as an extension admirer whose scroll nods too far forward at least for a new-style pulley'ed extension, I have two questions...

1) Is the scroll clearance as critical if the scroll is drilled for an old-style non-pulley type of extension?

2) Does anyone using either kind extension ever use fat gut or synthetic strings?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Once I finally got it started, needlenose pliers and foul language eventually got the job done.

Did you find that you had learned any new ones?

 

[SAlcott]

So, as an extension admirer whose scroll nods too far forward at least for a new-style pulley'ed extension, I have two questions...

1) Is the scroll clearance as critical if the scroll is drilled for an old-style non-pulley type of extension?

2) Does anyone using either kind extension ever use fat gut or synthetic strings?

Every extension I've seen, including Horst, Stenholm, and Fawcett, has had a wheel at the top. If the scroll angle is that far forward, it seems to me the only solution would be to cut into the scroll, which most luthiers these days don't want to do.

The only gut long E/C I'm aware of is Pirastro Eudoxa, and it's a "special production item", which translates to $$$$$. A fat (plain?) gut string would probably not be too happy in any extension. Synthetic core strings are fine in my experience.

 

[SAlcott]

Did you find that you had learned any new ones?

My standard repertoire worked pretty well.

 

[Don Hergert]

Every extension I've seen, including Horst, Stenholm, and Fawcett, has had a wheel at the top. If the scroll angle is that far forward, it seems to me the only solution would be to cut into the scroll, which most luthiers these days don't want to do.

The only gut long E/C I'm aware of is Pirastro Eudoxa, and it's a "special production item", which translates to $$$$$. A fat (plain?) gut string would probably not be too happy in any extension. Synthetic core strings are fine in my experience.

Thank you, I appreciate the shared experience and wisdom.

Practicality of an extension on my DB appears to be pretty low. Does anyone just tune the E down to C when needed?

 

[SAlcott]

John Feeney plays plain gut GDA with a wound gut C as his regular tuning.

 

[Eli Brockway]

Does anyone just tune the E down to C when needed?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] If I remember right that's actually what John uses/used at one point, although his top three were always Dlugoleckis last I checked. Otherwise, there are Low Cs made both steel and synthetic core for fifths tuning that could probably be used alone with normal ADG, although tension and top pressure mismatch might be a thing.