Double Bass To ear your DB among the orchestra

[eerbrev]

...The guy from the London Phil., tuning in 5ths as he does, seems a bit of a maverick. I wouldn't be surprised if he gives it a try...

It's the London Symphony. His name is Joel Quarrington. Just a head's up!


eerbrev

 

[Zojo]

That would explain why I couldn't find him when I searched "London Philharmonic".

 

[Anonymatt]

One thing he said that was funny was that orchestra conductors have no idea that he is in a non-standard tuning. They just aren't that aware of what the basses are doing.

I'm always paranoid that the conductor is reading my fingerings, etc.

 

[eerbrev]

I'm always paranoid that the conductor is reading my fingerings, etc.

unless your conductor's a bass player (as one of mine in school was), I wouldn't worry about it. Even if they are, they'll only notice when someone ****s up. They've got too many other things to focus on to watch your fingering, or even your tuning.

Are you playing the right note, in the right rhythm, at the right time? Then no one but your section cares, and (imo) anyone in your section who gets messed up because your fingering is "different" really needs to worry less about you and more about their own problems.

eerbrev

 

[Andrew McGregor]

Conductors, if they are any good, simply don't care HOW you achieve playing the part. Non-standard tuning, different bows, strange fingering, doesn't matter. Getting the right sound in time and in tune with the correct articulation, does matter. To the extent that bowing and fingering matter for that purpose, the conductor will care; bowing does matter quite a lot as it helps with the timing and articulation, but fingering, not so much. Very occasionally a conductor might ask you to tune your E down if you don't have a fiver or an extension.

 

[eerbrev]

Conductors, if they are any good, simply don't care HOW you achieve playing the part. Non-standard tuning, different bows, strange fingering, doesn't matter. Getting the right sound in time and in tune with the correct articulation, does matter. To the extent that bowing and fingering matter for that purpose, the conductor will care; bowing does matter quite a lot as it helps with the timing and articulation, but fingering, not so much. Very occasionally a conductor might ask you to tune your E down if you don't have a fiver or an extension.

+1

 

[Zojo]

Another funny thing that Joel Quarrington of the London Symphony said was that a few years back everyone had to use the same bow grip.

So bass sections are really running amok these days.

 

[AClark]

Use the vibrations! Learn how each note feels on your finger tips and bow hand.
It's also helpful to press your ear against the neck.

 

[Zojo]

Other than being quaintly old school, why would that be better than actually hearing your bass with the use of technology?

 

[eerbrev]

Other than being quaintly old school, why would that be better than actually hearing your bass with the use of technology?

I've never felt the need, honestly. I use "brighter" strings on the bottom (spirocores) for clarity in the lower register without sacrificing section tone. I can hear myself, the section sounds good, win win.

 

[Andrew McGregor]

So, that's an important point... you want uncomfortably bright strings, because they cut through more to you. The brightness doesn't carry as well as the low end, so you're not going to sound bad (and in fact, the DB is a pretty bright, strident instrument anyway).

 

[eerbrev]

So, that's an important point... you want uncomfortably bright strings, because they cut through more to you. The brightness doesn't carry as well as the low end, so you're not going to sound bad (and in fact, the DB is a pretty bright, strident instrument anyway).

I don't know if I'd go with "Uncomfortably bright", unless by that you mean uncomfortable because you're afraid of being heard. Something like Chromcor from Pirastro on a bright Quenoil style bass is going to be a little much (unless your whole section is doing it, at which point it could be a rad sound), especially if your stand partner is playing an old English bass with Passiones on it.

Then again, that's just my impression. it could sound awesome, who knows?

On a side note, want strident instrument examples? look not further than the rest of the violin family. why should we really be so different?

eerbrev

 

[Jon Stefaniak]

In a class I attended with Hal Robinson, he stated quite plainly that standing while playing in orchestra has the disadvantage of not being able to get your ear to the side of the neck to check intonation without bending your neck in an obvious way.
Related story -
I saw the Philly Orchestra play Tchaikovsky 5 in a concert years ago. They got to the last page of the Symphony and Hal dropped out and was frantically checking and tuning his strings. Nobody can guess how out of tune his strings were, but at that point in the symphony, I am sure he was not the only one out of tune. I got the impression that he simply cannot tolerate playing out of tune in the section (even though 90% of the page is one note he could have adjusted and played fine) For most players, I would guess dropping out at the climax of the symphony would be worse than hitting a few unsure notes, but Hal is pretty serious about not playing out of tune. Interesting to watch anyway.

 

[Anonymatt]

Conductors, if they are any good, simply don't care HOW you achieve playing the part. Non-standard tuning, different bows, strange fingering, doesn't matter. Getting the right sound in time and in tune with the correct articulation, does matter. To the extent that bowing and fingering matter for that purpose, the conductor will care; bowing does matter quite a lot as it helps with the timing and articulation, but fingering, not so much. Very occasionally a conductor might ask you to tune your E down if you don't have a fiver or an extension.

I am just beginning with playing with a conductor, so I guess I'll have to get over the fact that they're not all-knowing gods. Looking forward to deep, sound sleep tonight.

Interesting stuff coming from this thread, though.

 

[paulears]

It's been a long time now, but I always had the feeling that a number of people tuned before they started then played where their fingers automatically went to because of the practice. As these people always seems to have quite aggressive vibrato, I often wondered if their intonation was actually a bit suspect, and the vibrato was hiding it? I've seen others adjust sitting position to allow the body to come in contact with their bony parts - knees especially, so they can feel the vibrations. I think worst case with a DB must have been for the big bands in the swing era, when the brass and woodwind count was high, and technology low. I bet they never heard a single note they played!

 

[PaulCannon]

I am just beginning with playing with a conductor, so I guess I'll have to get over the fact that they're not all-knowing gods.

 

[PaulCannon]

It's been a long time now, but I always had the feeling that a number of people tuned before they started then played where their fingers automatically went to because of the practice.

Sadly, the pitch can move and vary depending on a number of variables. Harmonic context, instrumentation, the temperature on stage, and the sensitivity of those around you will all affect intonation. If you're always trying to put a pitch in the same place every time, you're never going to be perfectly in tune with the ensemble.

Yes, you should have a solid idea of where each note is on the fingerboard. Yes, you should have defaults. However, if you're still thinking in terms of "where does my left hand go?" then you haven't yet reached a point of fluency. When I'm in the zone, pitch-wise, I'm thinking strictly in terms of sound. I can anticipate precisely where the pitch will be, and I know exactly what it feels like to place that particular note where I'm hearing it at that moment.

This is one of the most consistently aggravating aspects of playing music. The more you think about it, you simultaneously become more sensitive to it and more annoyed by it. I've spent thousands of hours of my life practicing and thinking about intonation. I still have some things to learn, but after all that I think I've managed to play a few notes in tune.