To eject or not?

[3Liter]

Ug. I need some better minds on this...

I'm a non pro guitar player and I can sing. I'm in two projects. One, a nominal "blues" jam/band that's been going on for a few years. Started as a jam in my basement so essentially I could work on some stuff and then *I* would feel more confident at the public jams I was attending, not necessarily with these guys. A while back, the guys pushed to play out and we made it happen. We worked a little harder and whipped it up a bit and played a few places. Covid killed it all.

We took some time off and have been back jamming since last summer. Sloppy. Lazy. No drama per se, but the usual band stuff...drummer that's too fast and busy, noodles while we're talking, won't commit to the weekly jam unless there's a quorum, and is sending emails all evening, bass player doesn't know any of the tunes, but has a good ear, harp player/singer, that doesn't ever know the keys and despite being the first to commit to the weekly jam never has a song ready or top of mind when it's his turn to sing, plus is sending emails during jam/practice/rehearsal. Other guitar player/singer is more a rhythm player as am I, so there's some clashing there. Other than me, he's the only one that put in any effort outside my basement. We got together last night after a few weeks off for scheduling. I'm listening to the recordings now, and it's better than I thought at the time, but unsatisfying somehow. We never work on arrangements or play the reference recordings or our own to critique ourselves.

So, I have 1. the hang, 2. some music and 3. no money.

I no longer want to gig with these guys. I don't want to be out scouring for gigs, an frankly out with people in tight spaces and alcohol. (I used to do a lot of open mics, but I have no desire to sit around for 2 hours to play my 15 minutes.)

I just joined another start up that's close to home. This was planned as a band that could play wineries, etc. From the drop, I knew it was a long way from that, so I figured I could get what I'm not getting from band one. I'm just a player here. We picked a handful of songs, and the BL had us run them again and again. The bass player, and drummer, BL/keys and I were prepared. It wasn't great. The singer/acoustic guitar player was sort of prepared, but the music was still messy. BL wants to do songs "just like the recording" as best as I can tell. Lots of enthusiastic emails bounced around and I ignored about half as excitement. The BL emailed me and asked me what I thought of the singer and how he seemed to think he was going to be the main singer and I can see him trying to take over. (I do NOT want to do it since I'm still on shaky ground myself). This was after the first week. Second week was a little better. But I think the BL has aspirations that exceed the group's abilities (and maybe his own). We had a debate about something and there was the uncomfortable "let's listen to the recording (again)". We have our third go this evening. I really want to think about what I want from this. I'm the youngest in this and the only one not retired.

So I have 1. Some music, 2. No money. 3. No hang

I've thought of taking a hiatus for a while from playing with others. I have been disappointed in how it's been going, including my own contributions. Until Covid hit, I was playing in Church but that ceased and hasn't resumed....or has, and I'm OK not being there, there was a lot of intervention that ended up driving the MD away in Jan/Feb 2020.

I don't know much about GarageBand or any of the apps to make music on my own. I'm just a covers player anyhow. I'm not sure what to do so stay inspired if I roll out of these projects. Project #1, I feel bad because if I roll out, it'll kill it for the rest of the guys I think. I've got a lot of hobbies and stuff I do, so can always come back to music but will have to shake the rust off when I do.

Maybe I needed to just get it out there, but curious about your perspectives.

 

[Goatrope]

Take the hiatus. Build your chops. Build your confidence. Find better players. Play out as much as you can, whether open mic, sub, or band.

 

[QORC]

Eject. find something that suits. but in the meantime, practice practice practice

 

[mrcbass]

I'm not sure what to do so stay inspired if I roll out of these projects. Project #1, I feel bad because if I roll out, it'll kill it for the rest of the guys I think.

Before I got into gigging bands, my inspiration to keep at it came from wanting to get good enough to do so.

Now that I (feel I) am good enough, motivation is tougher when I'm between bands, or when gigs become scarce (like last year). Between bands, I'm always looking for the next opportunity and prepping to be ready to take it. I did not use my Covid time very well in relation to music. Tired of running the same old set songs to keep sharp, I pretty much let the dust grow on my bass.

You have a couple of options regarding project 1:
1. Work with the guys and let them know you're not interested in gigging with this project. You're willing to continue the casual jam.
2. Just walk. I get that you'd feel bad if you take your ball and go home, but seriously, it's not your responsibility to keep dealing with something if you're not having fun. If it was a more productive, gigging band, then yeah, work with them through the transition to replace you. But it's not, so don't carry around that weight.

 

[51PRI]

Ug. I need some better minds on this...

I'm a non pro guitar player and I can sing. I'm in two projects. One, a nominal "blues" jam/band that's been going on for a few years. Started as a jam in my basement so essentially I could work on some stuff and then *I* would feel more confident at the public jams I was attending, not necessarily with these guys. A while back, the guys pushed to play out and we made it happen. We worked a little harder and whipped it up a bit and played a few places. Covid killed it all.

We took some time off and have been back jamming since last summer. Sloppy. Lazy. No drama per se, but the usual band stuff...drummer that's too fast and busy, noodles while we're talking, won't commit to the weekly jam unless there's a quorum, and is sending emails all evening, bass player doesn't know any of the tunes, but has a good ear, harp player/singer, that doesn't ever know the keys and despite being the first to commit to the weekly jam never has a song ready or top of mind when it's his turn to sing, plus is sending emails during jam/practice/rehearsal. Other guitar player/singer is more a rhythm player as am I, so there's some clashing there. Other than me, he's the only one that put in any effort outside my basement. We got together last night after a few weeks off for scheduling. I'm listening to the recordings now, and it's better than I thought at the time, but unsatisfying somehow. We never work on arrangements or play the reference recordings or our own to critique ourselves.

So, I have 1. the hang, 2. some music and 3. no money.

I no longer want to gig with these guys. I don't want to be out scouring for gigs, an frankly out with people in tight spaces and alcohol. (I used to do a lot of open mics, but I have no desire to sit around for 2 hours to play my 15 minutes.)

I just joined another start up that's close to home. This was planned as a band that could play wineries, etc. From the drop, I knew it was a long way from that, so I figured I could get what I'm not getting from band one. I'm just a player here. We picked a handful of songs, and the BL had us run them again and again. The bass player, and drummer, BL/keys and I were prepared. It wasn't great. The singer/acoustic guitar player was sort of prepared, but the music was still messy. BL wants to do songs "just like the recording" as best as I can tell. Lots of enthusiastic emails bounced around and I ignored about half as excitement. The BL emailed me and asked me what I thought of the singer and how he seemed to think he was going to be the main singer and I can see him trying to take over. (I do NOT want to do it since I'm still on shaky ground myself). This was after the first week. Second week was a little better. But I think the BL has aspirations that exceed the group's abilities (and maybe his own). We had a debate about something and there was the uncomfortable "let's listen to the recording (again)". We have our third go this evening. I really want to think about what I want from this. I'm the youngest in this and the only one not retired.

So I have 1. Some music, 2. No money. 3. No hang

I've thought of taking a hiatus for a while from playing with others. I have been disappointed in how it's been going, including my own contributions. Until Covid hit, I was playing in Church but that ceased and hasn't resumed....or has, and I'm OK not being there, there was a lot of intervention that ended up driving the MD away in Jan/Feb 2020.

I don't know much about GarageBand or any of the apps to make music on my own. I'm just a covers player anyhow. I'm not sure what to do so stay inspired if I roll out of these projects. Project #1, I feel bad because if I roll out, it'll kill it for the rest of the guys I think. I've got a lot of hobbies and stuff I do, so can always come back to music but will have to shake the rust off when I do.

Maybe I needed to just get it out there, but curious about your perspectives.

Band 1: It sounds like not everyone is on the same page. Either stick with the one guy who seems interested and is working or bail.

Band 2: I would LOVE to play in a band with a BL who wants to play songs like the record. I think that's what is impressive to many folks out there.

I would personally try to salvage both situations and see which one takes off.

When you say you are a singer, are you a really good singer? Do you really have a great voice? If so, you should use it, because most of us who sing do not have great voices, and great voices should be heard.

IMO...

 

[3Liter]

Before I got into gigging bands, my inspiration to keep at it came from wanting to get good enough to do so.

Now that I (feel I) am good enough, motivation is tougher when I'm between bands, or when gigs become scarce (like last year). Between bands, I'm always looking for the next opportunity and prepping to be ready to take it. I did not use my Covid time very well in relation to music. Tired of running the same old set songs to keep sharp, I pretty much let the dust grow on my bass.

You have a couple of options regarding project 1:
1. Work with the guys and let them know you're not interested in gigging with this project. You're willing to continue the casual jam.
.

Yeah, I didn't use my time well either.

I think for the jam, it's tough because I'm not sure I'm interested in the jam any longer, because it feels like pulling teeth to get through it and the music is subpar. We have three singers (so in some senses 3 people to lead the songs). It's bizarre, because some of them look like a deer in the headlights...."what you do you wan to play? You had the whole drive over to think of it." I like the guys, it's hard to sharpen up something I want to try when it rolls at way faster or way busier than it should go.

 

[3Liter]

Band 1: It sounds like not everyone is on the same page. Either stick with the one guy who seems interested and is working or bail.

Band 2: I would LOVE to play in a band with a BL who wants to play songs like the record. I think that's what is impressive to many folks out there.

I would personally try to salvage both situations and see which one takes off.

When you say you are a singer, are you a really good singer? Do you really have a great voice? If so, you should use it, because most of us who sing do not have great voices, and great voices should be heard.

IMO...

I'm an adequate singer. I don't think I'm good and like everyone I don't like my voice. I like doing it however. BUT, my guitar playing and singing came along together, so I feel like my guitar playing languished and why I look for opportunities to just play. In church I didn't sing because we had real singers who could read notes and make the sounds those notes indicate. I could represent the congregation in that instance.

As far as "taking off" that's the rub. I don't want to gig. At least not right now. I have reasons for this that would send the thread down a bad spiral so I won't mention them. I don't want to play out in public.

But, I do want to play better. Band #2 is only interesting to me for what I could learn from how other people run a band since I have gotten slack at running my own. However, I *feel* that the BL is in above his head in running it. He was all giddy in how we sounded last week and then sent around an email that we "had a lot of work to do". Hmm. And then on another song choice worried about really specific details of a backing part. Hmm. Let's rough it in and see if we can play in time together (this has been a little rocky so far). So why not address right then and there? I'm still waiting to see where this goes. It's not hitting a stage anytime soon, so I'm not concerned I'm wasting their time.

 

[wazzel]

I'm an adequate singer. I don't think I'm good and like everyone I don't like my voice. I like doing it however. BUT, my guitar playing and singing came along together, so I feel like my guitar playing languished and why I look for opportunities to just play. In church I didn't sing because we had real singers who could read notes and make the sounds those notes indicate. I could represent the congregation in that instance.

As far as "taking off" that's the rub. I don't want to gig. At least not right now. I have reasons for this that would send the thread down a bad spiral so I won't mention them. I don't want to play out in public.

But, I do want to play better. Band #2 is only interesting to me for what I could learn from how other people run a band since I have gotten slack at running my own. However, I *feel* that the BL is in above his head in running it. He was all giddy in how we sounded last week and then sent around an email that we "had a lot of work to do". Hmm. And then on another song choice worried about really specific details of a backing part. Hmm. Let's rough it in and see if we can play in time together (this has been a little rocky so far). So why not address right then and there? I'm still waiting to see where this goes. It's not hitting a stage anytime soon, so I'm not concerned I'm wasting their time.

There are lots of people out there that like to play but have no interest in gigging. I have a few guys I jam with that is going go no where other than the house we play at. My dad and some of his friends have play for forever and never gigged. Just got to turn over enough stones to find people that have your same desires.

 

[3Liter]

There are lots of people out there that like to play but have no interest in gigging. I have a few guys I jam with that is going go no where other than the house we play at. My dad and some of his friends have play for forever and never gigged. Just got to turn over enough stones to find people that have your same desires.

That's what I want right now. Folks dedicated enough to sound good. For our own satisfaction and technical accomplishment.

 

[lfmn16]

I'd keep at least one project. It's much harder to improve if you aren't playing with other people.

 

[mrperkolator]

my thoughts, based on what you seem to be looking for, is to just set up a jam/hang session. Tell any musician you know, "hey the second Saturday of every month I'm hosting a jam." or something of the like. A set pattern, anyone invited. Push your skills with whoever shows. this reframes everything to just be musicians challenging each other.

I saw a jam session like this as a kid. Bunch of bluegrass guys got together in the back room of this restaurant. They were good. And it was chill. No "band politics" because it wasn't a band. They did it the first Sunday of every month. FWIW, when a jazz player dropped in, and there was a weird mixture of styles.... it was actually kinda cool. Each player brought their own sound. I'm not into bluegrass like that, but it was a cool envionment.

 

[toddsterbassist]

 

[sawzalot]

Don't get wrapped up in something you don't want to do. Of course, that begs the question, "what DO you want to do?" I don't know that I saw that clearly articulated. Eject from these situations because the 1/3 ratio isn't gonna work, figure out what you want, and go find or build that.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Take the hiatus. Build your chops. Build your confidence. Find better players. Play out as much as you can, whether open mic, sub, or band.

There isn't any advice better than this. I have come to sort of hate open mics, but I still go, along with a few bandmembers. We hang out, we get up and jam a little, but mainly we're looking for people who can play. If nothing else, some of them--after we compliment them on their chops--will come out to see us play. There is a local scene, and we do our best to stay plugged into it. When we were starting out, our BL would hit three of these a week. Big time investment, but that's how she recruited us (Well...not me. They got me through bandmix). Point is, you want find people to play with, you gotta go where people play. See and be seen, and all that jive.

 

[swarfrat]

Money is always gonna be the long shot. I'd go for music and hang

 

[Frunobulax]

Now I know I'm.going to cop some flack but here goes...
The problem I see with the first band is identifying the project as a "JAM" band.
To me, jamming, means lack of discipline. It means making noise, making mistakes, not rectifying these mistakes. It means we can be lazy because it's 'nothing serious'.
Yes, I'm aware of the benefits of improvisation and the fun of jamming but when gigging becomes the focus, jamming mentality will not suffice.
The audience doesn't pay to hear mistakes. Woody Allen summed it up with these words "I'm more interested in the notes they were not playing"...
I sum it up with these words "What's the difference between Jam and Marmalade?
You can't Marmalade your ......... up your ........" (fill in the blanks)
If your serious about gigging, find serious gigging musicians.

The second band, give it a time limit. Voice your expectations.
If these expectations are not met in that time frame, move on.
One of the biggest problems any musician faces is carrying others.
You can only carry others so far. They will either walk for themselves or your arms will fall off. That time limit is the point where your arms start to cramp.... once you reach that point, drop it and find something else.

 

[3Liter]

Don't get wrapped up in something you don't want to do. Of course, that begs the question, "what DO you want to do?" I don't know that I saw that clearly articulated. Eject from these situations because the 1/3 ratio isn't gonna work, figure out what you want, and go find or build that.

Good point. I'd like the original to go back to what it was intended to be. A workshop for sharpening up skills and just enjoy doing it. But with three of the members putting in no effort outside the room it's not sustainable and I'm loath to drag people along or coach them through it any longer.

That said, last night we played through maybe a dozen or more songs in 2 hours. It started as a blues jam, so it's loose. Play the two verse and everyone gets a stab at a solo over the changes or jam section (we've picked up a lot of Dead songs).

Tonight at #2 band we got through FIVE in two hours. Some of them were so simple it's be laughable to name names. Half the time the BL was getting on the acoustic player/main singer for his phrasing and to stop playing guitar behind what I was doing. There's one I sing the chorus because it's higher than he can go. He's still signing behind me and off my timing. The rest sounded better than band #1 because people are focused. We have some dynamics. It's easier to play guitar because we're not playing so fast. What I'm am learning from song directing I could/should apply to band #1 but I'm so worn out from it.

Despite the BL getting all over the singer tonight the music was fun. I felt better about what I was playing because I guess.4/5 of us were.prepared. I think the singer will get axed soon. Then what?

In another thread someone posted a funk guitar book. .I just ordered it for something to try. But like I said, I know the ticket to better players is to be "on the scene" but for a variety of reasons, I'm not good with that right now. When band #1 would frustrate me, I'd play the blues jams (after waiting for an hour) or the open mics (same). So I've held.onto band #1 as my only outlet for music. Maybe held on too long.?

 

[mrperkolator]

In another thread someone posted a funk guitar book. .I just ordered it for something to try.

name of book?

 

[singlemalt]

Tough spot. Finding better players that don’t want to play out? All the guys at jams want more stage time.

 

[pcake]

if you're willing to leave both "bands" and take a hiatus, why not take as much time as you need to find or build a band that suits your needs?