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to those who need more power than an SVT-CL [Doom]

#61
It's apparent you are not digging your tone. That's very frustraiting for sure.

As far as sounding loud enough, thats a tough thing with bass to get. I also agree that a single SVT just doesn't "sound" loud. BUT then I remember comparing my 67 Fender Bassman to an SVT and there was just no comparison.

40 years playing bass and I just think I've become spoiled. It was really tough to be loud at 15 with 50 watts..

Another thing an SVT is not the answer to all rock and roll equasions. However, the thing is pretty close. Just as Jimmy has mentioned he will regularly play out with a B15 and does just fine. Its the low stage volume and big Bass BOOM off stage effect that gets the job done.

May I recommend IN EAR MONITORS? I can guaranty your CL is getting the job done off stage very well. ALSO two SVT's driving two cabs is better.

Every time I added and amp and cab the whole rig sounded much more commanding. The big question is, how many is enough? If I'm weak now, I will just have to fold and hook up FOH...

If you look at current setups of two top bassists still playing. Gene Simmons and Mel Schacher both play TWO CL's and a pair of cabs... You'd be in great company.

BOB
 
#63
well Bob, you're probably right.

when i look at bands with a similar vision for oppressive bass sound, i always see walls of amps. it's easy to forget that most of the bands i see live with a SVT-CL + 810 are getting much of their house volume from proper PA support. but if it isn't loud enough for me on stage to enjoy playing and put on a good show without it sounding bad five feet away, then i'll need more speaker and power.

it's definitely a frustrating point for someone early in their playing without much money and other expenses.
 
#65
bovine mind said:
well Bob, you're probably right.

when i look at bands with a similar vision for oppressive bass sound, i always see walls of amps. it's easy to forget that most of the bands i see live with a SVT-CL + 810 are getting much of their house volume from proper PA support. but if it isn't loud enough for me on stage to enjoy playing and put on a good show without it sounding bad five feet away, then i'll need more speaker and power.
Click to expand...
Not to mention a good audiologist.
 
#66
well, more information keeps coming up to have me doubt the health of my rig.

i bought the 810E from a local guitar shop, called them back and spoke to the guy i bought it from. apparently he used an SVT-CL with the same cab and had to turn his amp up to 8 on the gain and the master in order to be heard in his punk band [ 8 out of 10 ], just about as hard as i do. worse for me actually, this is a metal band.

this leads to me to believe something really is wrong with the cab if he had to push his head and hard as i do, and my amp has just been fully serviced.

i called a different guitar shop and told the guy the same thing, i have to raise the gain and master almost all the way up in order to get loud. he said that should be unbearably loud. he offered to let me bring my head in and try it with the 810 in his shop he knows is working.

in the meanwhile, all the speakers push out when given the 9v battery test, and every speaker sounds like it has volume, so i can't figure what else could be wrong. has anyone heard of an 810E acting this way? like muffled lack of hi midrange and serious lack of volume?
 
#67
One other thing, pop a speaker out and see if it is original units or if somebody changed them out... Just because the CL has been serviced doesn't mean it isn't lacking. Try a different head on the cab too. I hit my speakers with FULL 800 watts to make them bark.

BOB
 
#68
rbonner said:
One other thing, pop a speaker out and see if it is original units or if somebody changed them out... Just because the CL has been serviced doesn't mean it isn't lacking. Try a different head on the cab too. I hit my speakers with FULL 800 watts to make them bark.

BOB
Click to expand...

i really don't want to believe you Bob. but i might have too. it's just strange when so many others say the amp should be deadly loud as high as i run it.

i've never taken a speaker out, and would rather a tech give a full diagnostic. i need more opinions on just how loud this rig should be i guess.

by the way, saw your rig in the 'rigs of doom' thread. unholy setup, what venues are you playing anyway? i'd love to see a youtube clip of that leviathan stack unleashed.
 
#70
Reading everything here, I have to agree that good in ear monitors
will help you hear yourself better.

The 8X10 sweet spot is 15-30 feet away from the cab and there it will kick you in the chest, but up close in a loud band, you can still struggle to hear yourself even with
that power.

Now granted, I've tried the Classic and the VR and the Class sounded much thinner to my ears.

If you want more clean headroom overall, I'd move up to a VR or the Reeves 225.
or find an older SVT head and refurbish it.
 
#71
today i took my stingray in to guitar center and asked if could crank their SVT-CL + 810. i dialed it the same as in my rehearsal space, and it seemed about the same volume, maybe a little bit louder with better note definition.

at this point i think my rig is fine, but the room acoustics are throttling my tone. our rehearsal space is not very large, has a very low ceiling, and a strange L shape. i tried searching for the effects of a low ceiling, but couldn't find much.

the one bonus room has is it RUMBLES. the walls shake and throw a huge amount of deep lows around the room, which i like as this is a doomy band big on pneumatic full body experience bass, but i think it could be killing my mids. i've cut the bass and it helps but a bit, but i still think i'm going to need another cab to add to get the volume i need without overdoing the bass knob.
 
#72
Metal Matt said:
No, I'll never be using a 12 inch combo... but for what it's worth, every "mishmash" configuration I've used (2-3 amps/4-5 large cabs) has been more than enough in the low end department. Hell, it gets bassier when you get about 10-15 feet from it.

I think maybe bovine is looking for volume in the sub bass frequencies. I know nothing about that stuff, only that you need a lot of power to bring them up to an audible volume.
Click to expand...

digging your tunes but you should definatly teach your drummer to play with a click the one that the drummer starts is painful to listen to.


in response to the OP though i'm of the philosiphy that more is more and more is better. Also sell the svt and get a matamp or hiwatt
 
#73
JimmyM said:
You just hit on the reason why people put their amp signals into the PA...to minimize bad off axis response so there are few bad seats in the house as possible. That's a concept the stoner crowd has an extremely difficult time understanding, and that's why so many of them have such godawful mixes at their shows.

Sunn O is wrong. Maximum volume does not equal maximum results. Maximum volume into a speaker system designed to reproduce maximum volume equals maximum results. Mishmash rigs aren't such systems. I could take a B-15 and a Marshall guitar combo and a handful of pedals, mic them into a gigantic PA, and not only could I get a doom sound that could blow heads apart, they would all say how much they loved getting their heads blown apart.

But it doesn't fit in with the aesthetic, and that's cool. I'm all about showbiz. But there are way better ways of doing it than emptying out a pawnshop and wiring it all together.
Click to expand...

haha you have to experience sunn to see what they mean by maximum volume yields maximum results, there gigs are like massages for the mind and body
 
#74
roflol said:
digging your tunes but you should definatly teach your drummer to play with a click the one that the drummer starts is painful to listen to.


in response to the OP though i'm of the philosiphy that more is more and more is better. Also sell the svt and get a matamp or hiwatt
Click to expand...

thanks, i think. this is our first band, and those songs are over a year old. i'd love to own a hiwatt someday, too bad i won't be able to afford one for....forever.
 
#75
roflol said:
haha you have to experience sunn to see what they mean by maximum volume yields maximum results, there gigs are like massages for the mind and body
Click to expand...

that's what i eventually want to go for. the entire person consumed by bass. not just overwhelming subs, but very high gain and volume. an 810 alone is not going to cut it. a new rig is coming together in my mind, friday payday means some new cabs....
 
#76
I suggest that you find the tonal range where your bass can fit in, and boost only that range.

For instance, guitars and drums are often very loud in the treble and bass. If you can leave your EQ flat, or accentuate the low-mids a tiny bit, plus don't engage the bass-boost switch, you will sound loud as poop.

With my SVT-VR and SVT cab, I plug into the 'normal' channel, leave eq flat, and I can crank it up and sound loud as hell. As soon as I boost the bass EQ or hit the bass-boost switch, my sound disappears.

*Also* almost forgot. Using Zaolla cables will make you seriously, seriously louder. I used to use Monster Performer 500 cables. Then a dude brought zaolla cables and speaker cables to a show for me to try. I had to turn the main from about 5 to about 3 because the volume was so much higher. Actually, clearer in the midrange. Much cleaner distortion when the amp is pushed, meaning distortion is audible rather than turning into mush. Hope this helps
 
#77
BM, you could buy my setup and I could build a bigger one. This one makes my eyes vibrate and blurrs my vision. Thats starting to get into that range of enough power.

But I'm looking for a rig that can knock the Earth off its axis and I'm not there yet. I've reached the point of Michael J Fox in BTTF, but that not fun enough.

Rock and Roll,
BOB
 

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