s/s IS an alloy composed of varying components- usually mostly nickel and chrome, but carbon, sulfur, and several different metals can be combined to get the desired qualities- anti corrosion, tensile strength, rigidity, etc. Many different alloys and grades.
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Today's Lesson: Don't Boil Cheap Strings...
- Thread starter Squid-TEGH
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s/s IS an alloy composed of varying components- usually mostly nickel and chrome, but carbon, sulfur, and several different metals can be combined to get the desired qualities- anti corrosion, tensile strength, rigidity, etc. Many different alloys and grades.
There are several grades of SS each with varying chemistry and mechanical properties, but SS is an alloy. In the case of your Fish Mongering days, It was probably either because of a low grade of SS that was poorly made, salt in the water which like sweat, promotes corrsion, of If the SS was in contact with a carbon steel, you could get cross metal contamination and cause corrsion.
You will have to get the strings to over 1300F and let it remain at that temp for at least 15 minutes to change the mechanical properties of the metal. This will not happen with boiling water, nor will boiling induce instant corrosion. With strings, you are more likely to promote corrosion through highly acidic sweat.
That being said, the guys who broke the strings after boiling either over tightened the string as previously stated, or when the string was reinstalled, the wrap did not follow the direction and angle of the original installation, thus weakening the core of the string and promoting breakage. Another factor in this scenario would be the amount of elasticity remaining in the core. If the core had been tightend and loosend enough that the the metal had no elasticity remaining, it could fail at any point when tension was applied. FWIW, the core of a B breaks at I've 800lbs of tension. I did the experiment in my lab at work.
I disagree:
Stress Relief of music wire and s/s spring is done at between 350 and 440 degrees for a set length of time relative to the particular alloy.
Read the second paragraph here regarding music wire (core wire):
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I think you may just have too many O's in your temps and tensile breaking point.
Any oils/lubes between the windings and core from manufacturing that also keeps the core from oxidizing (rusting) are permanently removed by boiling or solvents.
Rather than taking all the strings off at once, I would recommend changing one at a time. if you take them all off at once you could possibly alter the truss rod by releasing all the tension from the strings. Also, it's not hard to "bump" the bridge saddles and inadvertently change their adjustments as well (depending on the bridge of course). Both of these things can cause the fret buzz. Once all the strings are changed, stretch your strings a little while tuning to avoid having to tune several times before they settle in.
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- Oct 18, 2012
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I have never and will never boil strings. I would much rather spend the money for new strings.
You don't play TI Jazz Flats, do you?
Unless I overlooked it, they don't specify the tempering temp, just a accetable usage range. You could be correct as I've never looked at the MTRs for music wire. In basing this on the wire that I use at work is cold drawn from a .75" wire to 2.5mm. That wire is 316L and tempered at 1350F before extrusion only. Not sure how or if the process for music wire is different for after being cold drawn.
I'd love to learn from any knowledge you have regarding the drawing process and heat treat of music wire.
Regarding the tensile, I was wrong, I checked the screen shot and notes that still have and it was an E and broke at 163 ft/lbs. A high C broke at 80 ft/lbs.
I'd love to learn from any knowledge you have regarding the drawing process and heat treat of music wire.
Regarding the tensile, I was wrong, I checked the screen shot and notes that still have and it was an E and broke at 163 ft/lbs. A high C broke at 80 ft/lbs.
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I would have to agree with that 100% but, depending on the strings that one likes, it could get expensive. So, I can see the reasoning...
Anyone have any thoughts or advice so I can learn from this experience?
In actuality, boiling is bad for strings of any quality or price point. Even if "survive" means "does not break", or "the outer wrap does not unravel", the string has still, in fact, been damaged as a result of the boiling, and will not last much longer in any event.
MM
It is all a learning experience, man. Nobody is born with knowledge of bass guitars.
Exactly. We have all been there. No exceptions. Keep on keeping on!It's all a learning experience. Until I had all four strings on I was convinced I was screwing my bass up badly.
Now, it's almost in tune again
I tried it YEARS ago when I was broke - it was a waste of time.
jazzyitalian
Supporting Member
I guess you've learned that boiling strings is largely a myth.
I tried it a couple of times when I was very young like 14. Nothing got damaged because I didn't subject them to long periods of time in 200-plus degree heat. But I also recall there was little improvement. So after a couple of go arounds, I sucked it up, went out the local music store and bought a new set for $10.
Speaking of which, they still sell $10 sets on eBay free shipping.
So rather than go through all that trouble, next time just spend the few bucks and be done with it all.
I tried it a couple of times when I was very young like 14. Nothing got damaged because I didn't subject them to long periods of time in 200-plus degree heat. But I also recall there was little improvement. So after a couple of go arounds, I sucked it up, went out the local music store and bought a new set for $10.
Speaking of which, they still sell $10 sets on eBay free shipping.
So rather than go through all that trouble, next time just spend the few bucks and be done with it all.
On the other hand, anyone who does play TI Jazz Flats rarely needs or wants to change them anyway. So it's kind of a moot point, isn't it?
MM
I made a tube out of scrap PVC from a plumbing project, maybe spent $3 and 15 minutes on the build. Bought a can of denatured alcohol.
I drop a set in and leave it until I want a quick change of strings somewhere down the line.
They come out nice and bright.
I drop a set in and leave it until I want a quick change of strings somewhere down the line.
They come out nice and bright.
I think music wire and cold drawn carbon steel are prepared near similarly.
Also, I consider Stress Relief/Relaxing of music wire and s/s spring to be a change of the properties of the metal.
I've had batches of 316l spring s/s rod relaxed/stress relieved IIRC at 325 degrees for 4 hrs, but after looking at performance graphs since, 25- 30 min may have been enough, but the batches were large, and mat'l at temp was the important factor.
12oC or 250F degree max recommended operating temp as in the article is not far from boiling temp ( not min boiling temp) especially if it's not monitored well. Damage could occur to the windings as well as the core. Besides losing all the lubes or oils between the wraps and core that protect the core from oxidation.
Core wires can be high carbon steel, or a grade of s/s, or even tungsten steel, so there are variables besides core diameter ( EB Cobalt Flats and TI Flats have very small diameter cores compared to some others, especially the B and E strings).
String manufacturers have differing tolerances for the breaking strength of the cores in the strings they make. DR, I think uses a 60% ratio, where the tension of the string at designed pitch is 60% of its average breaking strength (new strings of course). Other makers may not be as conservative in their design.
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Don't boil strings at all. Any. Cheap or expensive. You must've been struck by ROUND CORE strings, where these things happens easily. Soaking them in ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL is best, or ULTRASOUND CLEANING THEM. A ultrsound cleaner may cost you some dough but you can use it for numerous things. The danish video of someone jsut detuning the strings and slapping them hard - just like you did with carpets in the old days pre vaacum cleaners - will shift SOME gunk pretty much the same.
If you boil them, you may get the zzzing back for a few days, but you may jeopardize intonation big time. They sound and look new, but once put through a tuner and compare the 12th fret and so on, you will discover worse idiosyncrasies than when they were not boiled.
If you boil them, you may get the zzzing back for a few days, but you may jeopardize intonation big time. They sound and look new, but once put through a tuner and compare the 12th fret and so on, you will discover worse idiosyncrasies than when they were not boiled.
Boiling isn't some miracle cure (although I just boiled a set, while moving them from one bass to another, for kicks). But boiling simply does not affect the properties of nickel plated steel or stainless steel. What are you boiling the strings in? Probably a stainless steel pot. Which has been through hundreds of cycles of heating to temperatures higher than boiling water (the fire under the pot is a lot hotter than boiling water; the inside of the pot doesn't discolor from boiling water; and so on). Taking strings off and putting them back on, you tend to bend them somewhat at the wrapped end and the saddle bend, and repeated bending is definitely what causes thin metal to break.
