Today's rant...tiny stages

[Bullitt5135]

Apologies in advance — I’m a little worked up. On top of playing bass and running sound for my cover band, I also run sound for a 12-piece Motown/Pop wedding band. It’s a fun gig with killer musicians, but the constant battle over space is breaking me.

We ask for 24x16 (we can make 20x12 work if no one moves), with a clear stage plot in the contract. Yet this weekend’s wedding has us stuffed into a 15x6 space, boxed in by a table and wall. If we take more depth from the dance floor, they’re left with barely 15x15 dance floor for 180 guests. My speaker stands will have to be in the middle of the room flanking the dance floor — all because the happy couple’s table is where we should be.

Last time, I hauled gear up two flights (broken elevator) to be shoved into a tight, triangle-shaped corner. After the wedding planner showed me where to set up, the venue manager waited over two hours until I finished to ask me not-so-politely to move everything forward 15 feet for some stupid reason. When we refused, she went to the bride — minutes after her vows — to get permission.

At another gig, the planner led me to a 4x8 patch of grass on a slope, full sun, next to the bushes. I wish I was kidding. Only after threatening breach of contract did we get shoved under a pop-up tent, with half several band members spilling onto the lawn and guests walking through the "stage" to come and go from the tent.

It feels like every other gig is a setup disaster. Prepping for weddings is stressful enough — showing up and being instantly behind the 8-ball just sucks. And these are high-end events with big budgets. We’re hired to be a centerpiece, then shoved in the broom closet. The band leader is very detail oriented, but clients and venues think nothing of disregarding our space requirements. I love this band, but it’s getting to be a lot.

 

[JRA]

...these are high-end events with big budgets.

and that's why you put up with the horse --- also, it's an honest living. congrats on having the gigs in the first place!

 

[TheReceder]

I've opted to price my bands out of weddings. If they're willing to pay my ridiculous price, (usually 5 times what we'd normally get, the band will usually be tolerant of all the idiocy.

Worst... when I need power and they come out with the cheapest harbor freight generator... ( i went from full band to a 3 piece and the rest of the band got payed(Charged full price). We didn't drop our rate. The power requirements were in the contract)

2nd worst. Country band... were told by the a significant number of elderly couples to turn down, they couldn't talk. It included the Brides parents.... We complied... and complied again, and complied again till we were running off stage volume and monitors. The Bride and groom came up and asked what's going on
? Happily they used a descriptive adjective XXX Them it's our wedding. Turn it up... and if you could rock a little that would be great.

We did a very slow, very country version of Zeps rock and roll and transitioned into the full rock version.... LOUD. Chased the elderly out of the venue, into another part of the building and rocked the rest of the night. We Were actually all rock musicians that played country for the cash... 2nd worst... could have been the best... but it was still a wedding

 

[DWBass]

Always check out the venue before hand. If you can, break down the band to a smaller entity. It's part of the business. 12 pieces is a lot. I was in a 10 pc horn band and quite a lot we got squeezed into very small performing areas.

 

[five7]

Stop doing those gigs or charge double.

 

[aigman]

I can relate totally with what you’re going through. I’ve got a great cover band with 10-12 members doing R&B covers, and tiny stages are what’s making me consider leaving soon. The 4 singers get front and center real estate and the rest of us are fighting for scraps.

This weekend a horn player and a guitarist was stuck behind the PA speakers. The drummer decided to defect, citing his loss of passion for playing live. Just no room for bigger bands anymore.

 

[silky smoove]

Contracts need to be in place, and they need to be executed. A contract is useless if you won't act on its terms. The band I do this kind of work in has absolutely ironclad contracts. If a contract term is not met, we will literally walk and retain the deposit. Stage size is one of the key points in our contract that is non-negotiable. The band is scalable from 6 pieces up to 10. There are minimum stage dimension requirements for every possible tier of the band, and we require advanced confirmation and verification by both the event planner and the venue. Our minimum sizes are reasonable and there are plenty of gigs where we play on the minimum size stage feeling very cramped, especially for the singers who have to do a lot of choreography, but if we don't fit we will split.

 

[Gopherbassist]

We’re hired to be a centerpiece,

...are you?

 

[MCS4]

This sort of thing makes me glad that I usually play in original bands of typically four or five pieces max, at venues that may be quite small at times but at least tend to have a dedicated stage. Granted, there has been at least once or twice where I swapped from my full-sized 34" bass to my 32" Zon headless for a little extra breathing room...

 

[rickwebb]

I'm feeling your pain. I play in a 6-pc. Classic Rock band ( F vocalist, Drummer/vocalist, two gtr/vocalists, F keys/Vocalist and my tited old self.) There are no more Big Rooms or Big Stages in our market. So far it's been relatively nightmare free, but i'm just waiting...

 

[bassfran]

Ha! I play in a FOUR piece and got stuck behind a pillar two weeks ago.

Enforce your contracts that’s why you have them.

 

[Pep]

Apologies in advance — I’m a little worked up. On top of playing bass and running sound for my cover band, I also run sound for a 12-piece Motown/Pop wedding band. It’s a fun gig with killer musicians, but the constant battle over space is breaking me.

We ask for 24x16 (we can make 20x12 work if no one moves), with a clear stage plot in the contract. Yet this weekend’s wedding has us stuffed into a 15x6 space, boxed in by a table and wall. If we take more depth from the dance floor, they’re left with barely 15x15 dance floor for 180 guests. My speaker stands will have to be in the middle of the room flanking the dance floor — all because the happy couple’s table is where we should be.

Last time, I hauled gear up two flights (broken elevator) to be shoved into a tight, triangle-shaped corner. After the wedding planner showed me where to set up, the venue manager waited over two hours until I finished to ask me not-so-politely to move everything forward 15 feet for some stupid reason. When we refused, she went to the bride — minutes after her vows — to get permission.

At another gig, the planner led me to a 4x8 patch of grass on a slope, full sun, next to the bushes. I wish I was kidding. Only after threatening breach of contract did we get shoved under a pop-up tent, with half several band members spilling onto the lawn and guests walking through the "stage" to come and go from the tent.

It feels like every other gig is a setup disaster. Prepping for weddings is stressful enough — showing up and being instantly behind the 8-ball just sucks. And these are high-end events with big budgets. We’re hired to be a centerpiece, then shoved in the broom closet. The band leader is very detail oriented, but clients and venues think nothing of disregarding our space requirements. I love this band, but it’s getting to be a lot.

There’s a simple solution to this dilemma. You need a clause for them to sign off on that says:

Our job is to entertain and help celebrate your occasion. In order to do that we need a minimum of 24’ wide x 16’ deep space for us to do our job properly. Anything smaller will compromise our performance and your event.
Please insure we have the needed space to perform. Should we arrive and find the space is smaller than the requested amount there will be an additional charge of $$$$$ plus we may need to send some band members home due to the smaller space. Please do everything you can to avoid this dilemma and help us make this the night you will remember forever for all the right reasons.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Apologies in advance — I’m a little worked up. On top of playing bass and running sound for my cover band, I also run sound for a 12-piece Motown/Pop wedding band. It’s a fun gig with killer musicians, but the constant battle over space is breaking me.

We ask for 24x16 (we can make 20x12 work if no one moves), with a clear stage plot in the contract. Yet this weekend’s wedding has us stuffed into a 15x6 space, boxed in by a table and wall. If we take more depth from the dance floor, they’re left with barely 15x15 dance floor for 180 guests. My speaker stands will have to be in the middle of the room flanking the dance floor — all because the happy couple’s table is where we should be.

Last time, I hauled gear up two flights (broken elevator) to be shoved into a tight, triangle-shaped corner. After the wedding planner showed me where to set up, the venue manager waited over two hours until I finished to ask me not-so-politely to move everything forward 15 feet for some stupid reason. When we refused, she went to the bride — minutes after her vows — to get permission.

At another gig, the planner led me to a 4x8 patch of grass on a slope, full sun, next to the bushes. I wish I was kidding. Only after threatening breach of contract did we get shoved under a pop-up tent, with half several band members spilling onto the lawn and guests walking through the "stage" to come and go from the tent.

It feels like every other gig is a setup disaster. Prepping for weddings is stressful enough — showing up and being instantly behind the 8-ball just sucks. And these are high-end events with big budgets. We’re hired to be a centerpiece, then shoved in the broom closet. The band leader is very detail oriented, but clients and venues think nothing of disregarding our space requirements. I love this band, but it’s getting to be a lot.

A good agent and contract rider made all the difference for us in a simple 8-9 piece function band.

Agent would reinforce everything through communication with the buyer, then show up early to insure the venue wouldn't attempt to short-turn the room, that things were setup as specified, that the electrician would deliver the breaker panel on time and to the actual stage, etc. We had an agent who was an absolute force of nature. I would NOT have wanted to be on the wrong side of the table with her.

Our experience with bad agents is they just didn't care that much about insuring a successful event live music experience. They were absent more often than not; We showed up to a hotel where the staff setup the stage fashion runway style and then went MIA, despite a clear stage plot and attached spec sheet to the contrary. We ended up having to move the stage pieces around ourselves. Then the electrician was late. Never again.

Our rider, BTW, included additional cost, per floor for non working or inaccessible elevators. First two floors were $500 ea. Next two were $1,000/ea. Next single floor was $2,000. Anything over 5 floors was a hard stop for the gig, full payment due. With the aforementioned good agent reinforcing the message, one venue paid for a service call with their elevator guy to have him on site just-in-case.

 

[klokker]

That does sound like a rough scenario. I've been playing out quite a bit for a long time and it's never been that bad for us. We're a 4 piece and once in a while it sucks, people are bumping into you on the way to the restroom all night, that kind of thing. But by and large, with few exceptions, our venues have been pretty willing to give us the room we need. Maybe it's because at about half the places we play there is no stage at all.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

Advance every show, no matter what type.

 

[dbflats]

First thing-headless bass

 

[Norm Nelson]

Heh. reminds me of playing Cold Spring Tavern with a 6-piece. We took one table for the sax player and the percussionist
I think weddings might be the worst gigs for a band (but hey the worst gig is better than no gigs, at least you'll get a story out of it). Much better if you're a solo or a DJ. Muuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.

 

[bherman]

If I were in charge of that situation, I would insist on an on-site meeting with the wedding planner and/or person that booked you. Something like that should not come as a surprise. I DO feel your pain tho - 12 is alot of people to sage-manage (not to mention, run sound for!).

 

[darev]

12 members? Wow. I bet you all sound amazing together. My head hurts thinking what it must take logistically to coordinate and launch a band like that.

I've spent more time in my life fronting and singing from near/next/on top of two fetid toilets in a three-piece than I care to recall. We're a smaller band with sh1ttier contracts, but we feel ya. I also love the concept of the ball-breaking agent. Love the idea of one too. Ain't got one. Never found one. Same with those big stages.

"Good to see ya, Dar. You can put all your stuff over there next to the closet in the Men's Room. Not in the closet now. Don't be stupid."

 

[trevcda]

We had a stipulation for a while, that still appears when warranted, that we will only set up gear and tear down gear once per event and that we needed the name of the person of their choosing who would take responsibility and make the call where that would happen prior to unloading sound and lights. Along with our weather clause (delaying or stopping a show at our discretion) and a suggestion of a backup plan for all outdoor gigs, this was to force someone into a decision before we started. Wedding planners are the worst. I was always grateful when they had the foresight to include a representative of the entertainment in the planning process.