What we are witnessing is the death throes of the band. A generation’s coming that simply won’t be interested. No, they’re already here as evidenced by the stories in this thread. The trend is your friend …. IF you adapt.
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Today's rant...tiny stages
- Thread starter Bullitt5135
- Start date
That's what I do when a tiny stage's in sight - I switch to my headless. The drummer always gives me a dirty look then, cuz she likes the sound of my Fender more. Other bandmates just don't care.First thing-headless bass
in most venues there's room for 4band members.. 5 with PA man. cause they are more valuable than anyone.. they can trigger the keys. backing tracks. and vocals. a keyboardist/DJ/ or bassist make the best PA Man. it's getting to where having extras are a Liability.
Maybe so, though this kind of thing has been going on with wedding and event venues for at least 35 years in my experience.
Definitely need a manager/agent type present at load-in to enforce contract adherence if necessary. I've been on both sides of riders not being met to the letter, but it's usually not something as significant as having enough space for the band, more like a band asking for some specific brand vs a reasonable substitute that's available locally.
If the band don't fit, you must acquit!
If the band don't fit, you must acquit!
High end clientele are entitled and used to ignoring the help.
I can agree with the statement that dealing with pro "wedding planners" is often the pits especially when there's no coordination between them and the band. Then you get deals like this we experienced.
The wedding was in the clubhouse of a new real estate development and it was not a very big room. But fortunately there was a small nook just to the right of the door where we unloaded that had been left for us to set up in which we did. They'd asked us to play some quieter cocktail hour music for an hour which we were just about to begin when the wedding planner witch showed up and all of hell came with her.
She told us that we were set up in the area for gifts and the wedding cake and that we'd have to move. OK, but to where. There was nowhere else in the room to move to. So she pointed to a small balcony on the second level and said up there. We were a five piece band and this balcony was about 6' wide and 6' deep. We'd be lucky to fit the drum set there but there were offices on either side with windows that opened.
This is where she insisted we had to set up and play despite the only way to get up there was a twisting spiral staircase. If not for me our BL would have done it no questions asked but I said no and the wedding planner stormed off in a fit and went straight to the father of the bride. He came over to make peace with his bankroll in hand and paid us off in cash at 3x our agreed upon price to do it. Worst gig but best paid ever.
We had our front man/vocalist on the balcony with the PA, drums and bass in one side office, keys and guitar in the other, with the windows open. We were roughly 15' above the floor below and I don't think anyone had a very good time including the wedding couple who kept apologizing to us all night long. Most of the crowd had left before the night was half over. I don't think this did the wedding planners rep much good.
The wedding was in the clubhouse of a new real estate development and it was not a very big room. But fortunately there was a small nook just to the right of the door where we unloaded that had been left for us to set up in which we did. They'd asked us to play some quieter cocktail hour music for an hour which we were just about to begin when the wedding planner witch showed up and all of hell came with her.
She told us that we were set up in the area for gifts and the wedding cake and that we'd have to move. OK, but to where. There was nowhere else in the room to move to. So she pointed to a small balcony on the second level and said up there. We were a five piece band and this balcony was about 6' wide and 6' deep. We'd be lucky to fit the drum set there but there were offices on either side with windows that opened.
This is where she insisted we had to set up and play despite the only way to get up there was a twisting spiral staircase. If not for me our BL would have done it no questions asked but I said no and the wedding planner stormed off in a fit and went straight to the father of the bride. He came over to make peace with his bankroll in hand and paid us off in cash at 3x our agreed upon price to do it. Worst gig but best paid ever.
We had our front man/vocalist on the balcony with the PA, drums and bass in one side office, keys and guitar in the other, with the windows open. We were roughly 15' above the floor below and I don't think anyone had a very good time including the wedding couple who kept apologizing to us all night long. Most of the crowd had left before the night was half over. I don't think this did the wedding planners rep much good.
Damn dude, thats some exhausting BS.
May I ask who books you? Like, within the band, who is responsible? That person needs to be clearer on the demands for space, and have a tighter dialogue with the planners before accepting the jobs. You could also consider adding clauses to the contract regarding space; IE; less space/breach of contracts = more money.
I'd also have a chat with the band about your take-away from this. I'm guessing youre already getting more than the band members who do nothing when it comes to rigging etc, but it doesnt sound like it worth it to you atm.
In the end there's definitely stuff you can do, but there will always be problems. Try to eliminate the possibility for problems that dont also contribute to the positive aspects of the gig (ie money)
May I ask who books you? Like, within the band, who is responsible? That person needs to be clearer on the demands for space, and have a tighter dialogue with the planners before accepting the jobs. You could also consider adding clauses to the contract regarding space; IE; less space/breach of contracts = more money.
I'd also have a chat with the band about your take-away from this. I'm guessing youre already getting more than the band members who do nothing when it comes to rigging etc, but it doesnt sound like it worth it to you atm.
In the end there's definitely stuff you can do, but there will always be problems. Try to eliminate the possibility for problems that dont also contribute to the positive aspects of the gig (ie money)
You have to be brutal with unsuitable venues that want your business.
If the venue is new, I check it out before hand. Online, by phone and a visit if need be.
I'd turn down such gigs and weddings are the biggest pita. The max I want to stay at a venue is 5 hrs from start to finish..
Been lucky that the smount of booking idiots/shysters has been limited.
If the venue is new, I check it out before hand. Online, by phone and a visit if need be.
I'd turn down such gigs and weddings are the biggest pita. The max I want to stay at a venue is 5 hrs from start to finish..
Been lucky that the smount of booking idiots/shysters has been limited.
We played a private auction at a hotel ballroom with a dedicated, recessed stage. Once we finished our first set, the organizer asked us to tear down our equipment and re set it up during break so they could project images of what was being auctioned on the back wall.
I said "We can do that, though please understand - We're musicians who love to play - that part we'd happily do for free within time limits. What you're actually paying for is our schlepping equipment. We'd normally charge double our rate to tear down and re set everything, though since we don't have to load everything out twice, we'll do it for half. If someone will get us a check for $1,500, we'll get on that right away."
Yeah. The organizer opted for a plan-B and we enjoyed a nice, long, annoyance-free break.
Fortunately, this weekend’s issue resolved itself — the client and venue agreed we needed more space and adjusted the floor plan. The band leader stays on top of details, contracts are in place, and communication is usually solid. That said, surprises still happen behind the scenes. Our clients are generally great to work with, and I don’t see us threatening up-charges or walking off gigs — but we do need to double down on preventing these issues moving forward.
As for why I do this: the band leader’s a close friend. He’s a hard-working, full-time musician and educator who’s built a top-tier band, and I started helping with sound and lights a few years ago to learn more and support that vision. It’s never been about the money — though it certainly helps fund my PA rig and bass collection.
Since I joined, the band’s grown — more players (some with A-list credits), bigger gigs, better pay… and more demands. It feels like we’re in that awkward space between AAA and the majors. There’s been talk of adding help or partnering with a production company, but we’re not quite there yet. Most gigs go smoothly, and the vibe stays positive despite the logistical headaches.
Why weddings? That’s one for the band leader — but I’d guess he enjoys the music, sees the value in the niche, and knows weddings pay well enough to attract serious talent. As great as the band is, we’re still paying our dues to break through to the big leagues.
As for why I do this: the band leader’s a close friend. He’s a hard-working, full-time musician and educator who’s built a top-tier band, and I started helping with sound and lights a few years ago to learn more and support that vision. It’s never been about the money — though it certainly helps fund my PA rig and bass collection.
Since I joined, the band’s grown — more players (some with A-list credits), bigger gigs, better pay… and more demands. It feels like we’re in that awkward space between AAA and the majors. There’s been talk of adding help or partnering with a production company, but we’re not quite there yet. Most gigs go smoothly, and the vibe stays positive despite the logistical headaches.
Why weddings? That’s one for the band leader — but I’d guess he enjoys the music, sees the value in the niche, and knows weddings pay well enough to attract serious talent. As great as the band is, we’re still paying our dues to break through to the big leagues.
Why weddings? $$$$$$$ is why. Gotta add, wedding is not about the band, ever, especially as the center piece. The center piece is the bride and groom table. Charge accordingly, remember where you are and what you are doing.
It's only about the band in as much as the band is allowed to succeed at providing a DANCEABLE, client-centered experience for all who attend.
For this particular wedding gig, the client who hired us expressly told us he wanted a band that would blow everyone away and keep people dancing all night. Then he gave the longest wedding speech I've ever heard – which involved long anecdotes, three separate crowd sing-along songs, and two attempts to get his dog to howl as he played harmonica and tin whistle. The band only had time to play 2/3 of the scheduled set list. Even with the adjusted floor plan, it was a tight squeeze. The band, as always, delivered – and the client was over the moon. As were the bride and groom.
Back to my original post. Is it all worth it? For nights and moments like this, yes, it's still worthwhile.
If this happens all the time, it sounds like you need better wording in your contract to emphasize that you have a 12 piece band that will require (dimensions) space to perform. Include space for speakers, stands, subs. If space not provided, band will not be able to perform and payment forfeited.
If you're referring to my post it was booked by another one of the band members who worked with the bride.
This was many years ago but prior to this we'd never had issues with too little space. Most of our wedding gigs were in larger church halls, hotels, banquet facilities, and even a huge county events center. So this was a first and to be honest it would've been far easier for the wedding planner to find another location for the cake and gifts. But she had her "vision" of how it should be and that was that.
Had the father of the bride not stepped up to resolve it I was ready to pack up and leave. There was no formal contract because we seldom used one for local weddings back then. Most of them were booked by the BL who often knew the families of the people we played for. We were a popular choice in what was a pretty tight knit community of people who hired us often for other events as well.
Safe to say we never had another experience like that one but we became more cautious in our communications about our need for ample space. The saving grace was we made well over $300 per man with tips which was pretty good pay in the early 1980s.
