Tone before/after volume?

[SharpCat]

Looking at various schematics for passive controls for single-pickup or VBT, I'm seeing some have the tone pot connected to the pickup outputs directly, and some have the tone tied to the line going from the volume pot to the jack. Seems like either would work to me, wondering whether anyone has reasons to do it one way or the other?

VVT, there's only the volume to jack wire available, so tone would necessarily go there.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Just wanted say that I love the cat in your avatar.

 

[SharpCat]

Just wanted say that I love the cat in your avatar.

Thanks. That's my cat Noelle, born on Dec 20th, 12 years ago.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Thanks. That's my cat Noelle, born on Dec 20th, 12 years ago.

Lovely!

 

[Crater]

The tone and volume controls in a typical bass (practically all of them) are wired in parallel; neither is "first." The tone control shunts treble frequencies to ground, the volume control shunts all frequencies to ground as their respective controls are turned towards zero.

I'm seeing some have the tone pot connected to the pickup outputs directly, and some have the tone tied to the line going from the volume pot to the jack.

It doesn't matter...if the clockwise terminal on both the volume and tone pot are connected with a wire then the circuit works the same.

 

[SharpCat]

The tone and volume controls in a typical bass (practically all of them) are wired in parallel; neither is "first." The tone control shunts treble frequencies to ground, the volume control shunts all frequencies to ground as their respective controls are turned towards zero.


It doesn't matter...if the clockwise terminal on both the volume and tone pot are connected with a wire then the circuit works the same.

Agree, but not what I'm (badly) describing. The tone control can be connected to the end terminal, and thereby see only the output voltage from the volume voltage divider (as you describe), or it can be connected to the center terminal (usually coming from the pickup or the blend pot) and see the full signal from the pickup. I think that these will indeed be equivalent, but want confirmation.

 

[walterw]

Seems like either would work to me, wondering whether anyone has reasons to do it one way or the other?

VVT, there's only the volume to jack wire available, so tone would necessarily go there.

yeah, with VVT (jazz bass style) the tone is necessarily "after" the two volumes, and it makes the controls more interactive:

when you nudge the volume down the tone acts like a second volume

when you nudge the tone down the volumes drop off much faster than before

(not a fan)

 

[walterw]

that's one good argument for VBT setups, you can run the volume and tone pots like a P bass so they're both more even and predictable

 

[walterw]

and don't get me started on the other drawback to VVT setups, the fact that (without a pickup switch) to get one pickup by itself you have to wire the volume pots "backwards" (pickups to middle lugs) which also worsens the sweep and tone when you turn the volumes down

 

[Matthijs]

If you only use volume as an on/off switch the difference is moot. If you use the volume to set levels the tone pot will be more consistent if it’s between the pu and the volume. The other way you lose interaction between the tone pot and pickup when you turn down volume.

 

[Evilheim]

This legend did a very comprehensive and visual demostration by using an oscilloscope about the different ways to wire the tone potentiometes, the other videos he has about guitar electronics are also great. I hope it helps

 

[rojo412]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I send the signal from the blend to the tone pot in most cases.

 

[bigthemat]

nothing to add techincal, but also wanted to chime in that I love your cat

 

[micguy]

If you wire the tone control from the hot of the pickup (top of the volume pot in a P bass) to ground, then the volume and tone controls are more logical in what they do - the tone control is working against pretty much the same impedance, so a "half" what it does to the sound is consistent, no matter where the volume control is set. The volume control on a P bass does change the tone some, but once you get off "full", it's fairly consistent as to what it does. If you wire the tone control from the wiper of that pot (it's output) to ground, what the tone control does and what the volume control do interact with each other more (and not in a good way) - the tone control act is different depending on where the volume control is, and vice versa.

Neither connection will cause a nuclear meltdown or anything, so if you want to try it, go ahead, but I think you'll realize why tone controls are usually wired a certain way.

Oh, and by the way, VVT circuits don't really work predictably like a P bass does - the volume controls are wired backwards, and what they do sonically is messy at best.

 

[Lardass5000]

I like your cat. Very distinguished.

 

[walterw]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but I send the signal from the blend to the tone pot in most cases.

that's electronically the same as normal, the tone pot and the pickups (via the blend pot) both hit the volume pot's input lug

 

[SharpCat]

This legend did a very comprehensive and visual demostration by using an oscilloscope about the different ways to wire the tone potentiometes, the other videos he has about guitar electronics are also great. I hope it helps

I had seen that video a long long time ago, and had forgotten it. That is indeed a great video. Thanks!

 

[walterw]

This legend did a very comprehensive and visual demostration by using an oscilloscope about the different ways to wire the tone potentiometes, the other videos he has about guitar electronics are also great. I hope it helps

david collins is very much the man when it comes to all kinds of high level guitar repair stuff

 

[micguy]

The tone control shunts treble frequencies to ground, the volume control shunts all frequencies to ground as their respective controls are turned towards zero.

The volume controls in a VVT setup shunt the pickups to ground (which is a bad way to make a volume control; it affects the tone a lot). In a standard P circuit, the tone control shunts high frequencies, but the volume control does not shunt the pickup - it acts as a voltage divider, which acts much more rationally - it's a pretty good volume control, unlike the ones in a VVT setup.

 

[SharpCat]

I've got an incoming Squier PJ, it appears that it has VVT from factory (not in my hands yet). Goal is to have the P side sound as close to a classic P sound as possible. I'm thinking this will require disconnecting the J pickup.

Could add a pickup switch I guess. Don't care about a blended sound for this particular scenario, but non-working pickups or empty routes in the top annoy me.