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Tone Hammer DI Output
- Thread starter JazznFunk
- Start date
No definitely not in AGS mode - I'm using a passive P-BassI'm pretty sure I was close to unity but I'm going to have to double check that - I just have a tuner pedal before the TH. It might just be the venue and the sound guy - I've gone to other venues and the sound guys did mention it was hot but they were able to work with it - I just wish I could turn down the DI out when needed...
Hi Jhonny,
The pre-eq xlr output is a hotter than some others on the market. It puts out -20dBu. We did this so that you could have the best possible signal to noise ratio coming out of the mixing board. On many cheaper boards you'll have a fair amount of hiss and noise once you move the fader above the "comfort zone". Mackie used to put an actual indent on the fader travel so you would be aware of that. The other reason to go hotter is that not everybody has a bass that is putting out -10 or more. A passive P-bass can be considerably less that that, and you want a nice signal going into the board. I can't see how you could not be able to use a -20 dBu output unless the engineer doesn't want to use the trim pots going into the fader, or he doesn't want to use the -20 pad. I think some engineer's have set their controls up for countryman d.i.'s, and don't want to adjust anything. For the record, the standard countryman puts out -32dBu. If you are concerned going into a gig, tell the soundman to adjust the trim pot on board to compensate for an additional 10 db of gain. It should be simple, and you'll have a nice clean signal.
DB
Dave, this is interesting insight. The board in question in my original situation was my guitar player's Mackie Onyx 1620 board we have used for years for live use and recording. It's an older one, and I haven't looked at the trim/pad controls closely in a while, but the current version indicates it is at -20dB gain when completely counterclockwise. Maybe the older gain pots were calibrated differently? I remember he said when I was plugged in with the Tone Hammer that he had the trim pot completely counterclockwise and I was still pegging the meter in PRE mode - way hotter than when I was using a J48 or Countryman. Your comments re: the Countryman's output makes sense.
I'm glad to have a firm explanation of the gain/output from the XLR on here and how to better communicate that in the future. I've only had a couple of instances where it's been an issue. In those instances I just have to have a separate DI on hand in case the engineer can't/doesn't get the TH to cooperate with his board with my chosen settings - which are not 'extreme' by any means.
I'm glad to have a firm explanation of the gain/output from the XLR on here and how to better communicate that in the future. I've only had a couple of instances where it's been an issue. In those instances I just have to have a separate DI on hand in case the engineer can't/doesn't get the TH to cooperate with his board with my chosen settings - which are not 'extreme' by any means.
Thanks Dave for clarifying that!! I'll make sure to communicate with the engineers a little more in the future to make sure things workout!
Just a quick addendum to the discussion... I used the TH twice this weekend with no problems, after notifying the sound guys about the added gain. Sounded great. Bassist and sound engineers happy.
Realize this is an old thread but thought I would just add something. I have a Tonehammer that I use everywhere - home studio, gigs, recording, etc. I recently got an MXR Bass Preamp to check out to see how they compare. One of the things I have been wrestling with is the difference in direct out between the TH and MXR. The MXR has significantly lower output compared to the TH. I could't figure out why but having just spent an hour with Dunlop tech support I think I have it sorted. The MXR XLR direct out is at mic level which is similar to a direct box like a Countryman and different from boxes like the TH and Sansamp products which are closer to line level output. As Dave B points out, this was for a good reason with the TH. I'm surprised Dunlop/MXR didn't take the same approach given similar application.
BTW, while smaller in size and with similar EQ points and function, the MXR is a nice box but sound quality and versatility of TH much better.
BTW, while smaller in size and with similar EQ points and function, the MXR is a nice box but sound quality and versatility of TH much better.
MIC level signals generally work okay for me, but there are some situations where they do not. There's one very noisy stage where I play often that when using a MIC level signal introduces to much hiss since the bass signal level is relatively equal to the noise. A line level signal allows the bass to be much hotter than the noise is, so it's virtually unnoticeable. I would not purchase or keep a DI that only had a MIC level signal.
Well unfortunately there's no indication that the MXR XLR direct out is mic level. Nothing in any if the specs or manual. I only discovered it trying to use in my home studio running into my DAW. Normally I use an Sansamp acoustic DI or the Tone Hammer with phantom power. The output was substantially lower even in pass thru mode which surprised me. I thought it was defective and several calls to their tech support and lots of hold time revealed the mic level output answer. Not sure what their thinking was given typical applications for this type of box. Hard to believe they didn't look at TH and other competitors when designing the pedal. I think most people will use as a pedal with an option to run signal to FOH not as a studio type DI.
Britbonic-
Despite being an older thread, your post caught my eye because I use the TH as my go to pedal for almost all of my live gigs. I've found it superior to literally everything else on the market (and I have those, too) when it comes to simple, solid and liked universally by FOH engineers. And it takes phantom power. All the others have their sweet spot uses, but the TH is just the all-around most flexible and yet solid I have found- hence the "hammer" name.
I also have been waiting patiently for the MXR M81's release because I like the form factor and features and want it in my gig bag as a backup that also takes phantom power.
Yes, the MXR M81 is not nearly as hot to the board and is simply a "cleaner," or less colored sound. So I keep that in mind when tweaking for consistency - POST-EQ. As a backup, it is the simplest and fastest replication of my TH. For the record my TH has never failed or even blinked, but one is none...
As far as the TH, I find that my best sound is POST-EQ and my gain is around 12:00 or 12:30 and master is actually at 10:00, with my Bartolini-equipped Tobias active bass. In other words, 12:00 on both gain and master is not unity. While for most pedals the PRE-EQ DI setting is the conventional wisdom, for live I've found that the TH is a notable exception. Don't be afraid to run it POST-EQ.
I got a few complaints about the very hot signal until I realized that the master didn't need to be above 10:00. Find the gain you like, then adjust the master down and you will likely find that sweet spot. I did around 10:00. Counter-intuitive to me on stage, but when running sound at the other end, I've found it to be awesome.
My two cents.
Despite being an older thread, your post caught my eye because I use the TH as my go to pedal for almost all of my live gigs. I've found it superior to literally everything else on the market (and I have those, too) when it comes to simple, solid and liked universally by FOH engineers. And it takes phantom power. All the others have their sweet spot uses, but the TH is just the all-around most flexible and yet solid I have found- hence the "hammer" name.
I also have been waiting patiently for the MXR M81's release because I like the form factor and features and want it in my gig bag as a backup that also takes phantom power.
Yes, the MXR M81 is not nearly as hot to the board and is simply a "cleaner," or less colored sound. So I keep that in mind when tweaking for consistency - POST-EQ. As a backup, it is the simplest and fastest replication of my TH. For the record my TH has never failed or even blinked, but one is none...
As far as the TH, I find that my best sound is POST-EQ and my gain is around 12:00 or 12:30 and master is actually at 10:00, with my Bartolini-equipped Tobias active bass. In other words, 12:00 on both gain and master is not unity. While for most pedals the PRE-EQ DI setting is the conventional wisdom, for live I've found that the TH is a notable exception. Don't be afraid to run it POST-EQ.
I got a few complaints about the very hot signal until I realized that the master didn't need to be above 10:00. Find the gain you like, then adjust the master down and you will likely find that sweet spot. I did around 10:00. Counter-intuitive to me on stage, but when running sound at the other end, I've found it to be awesome.
My two cents.
Agreed, lowering the Master lowers the signal to the board. It's an easy fix if the engineer complains of things being too hot.
Also, big +1 on using POST-EQ with the TH. While it seems most every other preamp DI on the market focuses on a baked-in scoop tone, the TH thickens up the mids, tightens the bottom, and slightly relaxes the highs, which sounds great through a full range PA. I quite often run my TH on, AGS off, and the EQ flat with the output set for unity gain. It's basically the tone of my bass with no preamp, with a little more mid fullness and less clanky zing. It's more of a singing tone.
Ok, so, coming to the partly, like, 11 years too late. but wanted to chime in that if you are just discovering this as I have, the solution can be pretty simple. I have taken to just carrying a little passive DI box with the -20dB, 0, -40dB switch on it. Not sure which one I have, but it's a good work around. In situations where the hot direct signal is a problem, this can fix you right up. Does what Dave B. recommends, but without having to explain anything to anyone. Because the 1/4" out isn't as hot, I don't even have to pad at the passive di box.
Gotta say I was a little take aback by the hot DI signal out of the TH. I originally thought something was up with my compressor. My Cali 76 has always been very quiet, or maybe I wasn't providing enough current to one or the other pedals. Mystery solved!!
Gotta say I was a little take aback by the hot DI signal out of the TH. I originally thought something was up with my compressor. My Cali 76 has always been very quiet, or maybe I wasn't providing enough current to one or the other pedals. Mystery solved!!
