Tone Suck?

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by cassius987, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. lowfreqgeek

    lowfreqgeek

    Mar 15, 2010
    Tijeras, NM
    I have done quite a bit of testing with all my pedals and a Radial true-bypass switcher. The Boss pedals do have rather significant tone-suck, IME. So much that I won't run them in my chain, only on a bypass loop. The buffered bypass in my VT Bass is definitely superb, as are the buffered bypasses in my Peterson pedal tuner and TC Electronic Flashback - both of which can run in true-bypass, as well. I haven't run an FFT on the Boss pedals, but their affect on the tone in bypass is noticeable through my Bergantino HS410; the bottom drops out and the bass gets thin and tiny sounding (comparatively).

    I have my board arranged in a way to take advantage of the good buffers, keep the bad ones out of the circuit as much as possible, and keep my signal path as short and clean as possible when I don't need certain things.
     
  2. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Colorado
    I will keep collecting until I have 40 basses
    Come by my house again sometime and I can give you my take on effects.

    bass effects
     
  3. cassius987

    cassius987 Inactive

    Apr 20, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Signal chain: active bass (it's an SGD Lutherie 2-band pre) to the MXR M-80, to the Big Muff, to the chorus, to my TC Classic 450 and fEarful 15/6.

    I'm not positive about any of my cables but if they are transmitting a sound I don't know how to determine whether they're the issue or the effect is. The long cables are quality stuff; the short cables are Hosa, fairly cheap.

    I am not sure what the term "unity gain" means. If you explain it maybe I can answer your question. EDIT: Found this on Wikipedia: "A gain of factor 1 (equivalent to 0 dB) where both input and output are at the same voltage level and impedance is also known as unity gain." So this applies to bass guitar rigs how...? Is it basically matching the output volume to the volume if there was no output in the first place, or is it matching the volume with effect on and with the effect bypassed?

    I do know that when I run the bass straight into the amp or through the M-80 alone it sounds like I want it to.
     
  4. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Unity gain in this case means each and every device is the same "volume" whether it's on or bypassed.
     
  5. cassius987

    cassius987 Inactive

    Apr 20, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Oh, so like an effect volume. Yeah I make sure they're the same on or off.
     
  6. rsmith601

    rsmith601

    Apr 14, 2009
    Boston, MA
    President, Source Audio
    It is interesting and refreshing to read an enlightened and thoughtful discussion on true bypass and buffered bypass. When each are implemented well, they each still have plusses and minuses. A poorly implemented buffered bypass is the worst of all worlds, and has given buffered bypass a undeserved bad rap. As I have noted before, I think TC is on the right track by offering customers the choice of each in one pedal.
     
  7. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Fromel and Barber have also offered those options, in certain pedals--and both makers are known for stellar-quality buffers.
     
  8. cassius987

    cassius987 Inactive

    Apr 20, 2007
    Denver, CO
  9. Thorsoundcore

    Thorsoundcore Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2009
    NYS
    i have both a muff and the CEB. the CEB doesn't suck my tone at all..(either that, or if it does, it's not enough for me to notice) the muff on the other hand sort of does suck the tone in comparison with my old ODB and it lacks alot of low end IMO. well, i can at least say if the CEB does suck tone it doesn't do it nearly as much as say, digitech (i have a turbo flange..horrible tone suck)
     
  10. I don't see anywhere in your thread where you say that your Big Muff is one of the newer models (which are TBP).

    If it's any of the old ones, I doubt that it is TBP and though I've not owned one, the bypass in my Bass Micro Synth was HORRIBLE and sucked the life out of all. Same for the bypass in my bassballs.

    I modded it myself to make it TBP.

    Sounds like you have it covered with the looper.

    I've done the individual looper route and I'm sorry that I didn't get one with a blender and it's back off my board again.

    Alot of my crappy fuzz boxes steal low end, the blender lets you put it back.
     
  11. gillento

    gillento

    Oct 15, 2005
    Luxembourg, Europe
    Nordstrand pickups
    +1 ... or better: a clean blend looper
     
  12. lowfreqgeek

    lowfreqgeek

    Mar 15, 2010
    Tijeras, NM
    I have the Radial version of that; 2 separate bypass loops. I currently have mine with one loop going to an off-board volume pedal (makes it easy to use or not use without messing with anything else), and one loop for my Boss effects. My Xotic, VT Bass, and TC effects are all after the Radial loop pedal. I run an ACG EQ02 in front of the loop pedal to buffer the bass coming in, and give me some level control.

    Works well for me needs.