Tone

[jmon]

We’ve all been there so don’t feel bad. The live mix is a totally different animal. The tone you get solo at home or even at the gig soloed before the whole band plays is totally different.

Low mids for me is the secret sauce live. If it’s boomy cut back some bass and add low mids to taste. If it’s harsh back off the high mids and treble to smooth it out. Low mids are still bass frequencies. You won’t lose low end believe me.

Finally try to get out front for one song. With a wireless or a long cable ect. You will really hear what you need there. Of course I know this depends on you gig situation. For any new venue this is a must for me. I do it early before the place fills up. If it’s difficult let your band mates know your plan and make it part of the show. “Check it out the bassist is rocking out with the crowd for a few!”

Last course of action is having a fellow bassist you respect hang out front and go back and forth from stage to front of house and tweaking your amp for you. Once that’s done and you’re happy snap a pic of the settings and save it. Then you know what’s needed at that venue. I have an entire folder in my phone for this.

Over the years I’ve found different Basses and different EQ settings that are vastly different are best for different venues. It’s not a one size fits all for us unfortunately.

Hope that helps. Don’t doubt yourself and rock out my friend!

 

[SmokinJoe992]

What sounds good ‘solo’ in your basement is generally not what will sound good playing with a rock band. The opposite is also very true. The sooner you learn this the better off you will be. It took about a year and a half for that light bulb to come on for me.

 

[lz4005]

I think playing unplugged is generally a bad idea (except perhaps with a pick) because (1) you have no idea whether your technique would sound good amplified or not and (2) it encourages your to pluck harder than you ought to in order to be able to hear yourself. Also, assuming that playing unplugged means not playing along with records, or a drum machine, or (obviously) a band, it is impossible to know how good your time is -- perhaps the single most important attribute of a good bass player.

Playing unplugged exclusively is a bad idea, but as long as you're mindful of how things sound with an amp it can be a valid part of practicing. And can easily be done with a time reference that isn't too loud. It's certainly better than not practicing at all.

 

[socialleper]

Thanks for responding. I know my question is fairly vague. I just feel that when I use amplification, that it sounds very sloppy, whether I try fx- or just DI, whereas when I'm unplugged, everything sounds fantastic to me. Maybe I'm just not as good as I thought I was, and amplification is just highlighting all my sloppiness that I didnt hear before. Just not sure anymore.

While learning unplugged is just fine, there is a disconnect between what the player might want to hear and can reasonably expect to hear if they haven't heard a particular bass through a particular amp.
While playing unplugged, your subconscious might be filling in the gaps for what you think you sound like. You can imprint your perfect tone on your playing. Then when you actually plug in, it doesn't meet your expectation.
That is one very real possibility. Chasing the magical tone in your head is a common behavior among musicians.

Taking a good look at your gear and assessing if it will get you where you want to get sonically is the next step. Playing without being plugged in can lead to a lot of bad habits if you never plug in. How the pickups reacted to your playing, the strings, the neck, etc impacts tone. How the bass meshes with the amp matters. How the amps reacts in the room you are playing in matters.
Sadly, playing technique and "tone" are two different skills.

 

[nnnnnn]

Get a bassist friend or bass teacher to try your bass through your amp and have them EQ it to where they like it. That still might not be to your taste, but at least will give you an example of what somebody else might consider "normal" or "usable" tone, bearing in mind what others have mentioned above about how the bass tone you hear in a band mix or recording may seem quite different to how an isolated bass sounds.

 

[Dirtyshift]

Are you talking about how your bass sounds when you play by yourself or how it sounds when you play with your band? These are two different things.

By myself. When playing with other musicians I'm fine with the sound.

 

[micguy]

There is a certain amount of "noisiness" that comes with playing an amplified electric bass, especially if you're playing energetic music.. If you listen to isolated bass tracks you can hear this. I've heard it described as sounding like music, with someone working on a Buick in the background (if you buy a Warwick, it'l sound like they're working on a Mercedes). Anyway, some of that is inevitable, but most of that you should work to remove from your sound. I just think you need to play through an amp or headphones when you rehearse so you can adjust your technique.

 

[Dirtyshift]

Solid body bass?

If you like the sound of a solid body bass acoustically and that is what you want it to sound like through an amp, maybe you don't really like bass?

Acoustically, the instrument is very rich in harmonics and brightness. Weak subdued lows. Lots of clarity. Through an amp you're going to hear all the lows and low mids that are so weak acoustically.

Yeah solid body. And no, I love bass

 

[Dirtyshift]

While learning unplugged is just fine, there is a disconnect between what the player might want to hear and can reasonably expect to hear if they haven't heard a particular bass through a particular amp.
While playing unplugged, your subconscious might be filling in the gaps for what you think you sound like. You can imprint your perfect tone on your playing. Then when you actually plug in, it doesn't meet your expectation.
That is one very real possibility. Chasing the magical tone in your head is a common behavior among musicians.

Taking a good look at your gear and assessing if it will get you where you want to get sonically is the next step. Playing without being plugged in can lead to a lot of bad habits if you never plug in. How the pickups reacted to your playing, the strings, the neck, etc impacts tone. How the bass meshes with the amp matters. How the amps reacts in the room you are playing in matters.
Sadly, playing technique and "tone" are two different skills.

 

[Dirtyshift]

Or possibly Basses, or Pickups and Electronics, or Hardware, Setup, and Repair, or (my guess) Technique.

I think playing unplugged is generally a bad idea (except perhaps with a pick) because (1) you have no idea whether your technique would sound good amplified or not and (2) it encourages your to pluck harder than you ought to in order to be able to hear yourself. Also, assuming that playing unplugged means not playing along with records, or a drum machine, or (obviously) a band, it is impossible to know how good your time is -- perhaps the single most important attribute of a good bass player.

Thanks. That was very helpful.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Thanks for responding. I know my question is fairly vague. I just feel that when I use amplification, that it sounds very sloppy, whether I try fx- or just DI, whereas when I'm unplugged, everything sounds fantastic to me. Maybe I'm just not as good as I thought I was, and amplification is just highlighting all my sloppiness that I didnt hear before. Just not sure anymore.

I've never heard you play, so don't be offended, but you're probably on to something there. I certainly found that to be the case when I moved up from entry level combos to more articulate amplification. It really made me clean up my playing, because you can hear everything that was being lost with my old amps.

 

[crazyBassClown]

whereas when I'm unplugged, everything sounds fantastic to me. Maybe I'm just not as good as I thought I was, and amplification is just highlighting all my sloppiness that I didnt hear before. Just not sure anymore.

Practicing unplugged will hide a lot of the detail of your playing, with only the loudest sounds heard. If you have developed your technique unplugged you may need to relearn some stuff when amplified. A little practice may socle your isue though.

 

[tfer]

Practicing unplugged will hide a lot of the detail of your playing, with only the loudest sounds heard. If you have developed your technique unplugged you may need to relearn some stuff when amplified. A little practice may socle your isue though.

I actually prefer to practice unplugged. I can ‘feel’ my mistakes, where an amplified dead note still has enough body to sound decent.

The advantage I have over @Dirtyshift is decades of playing live.

And that only comes with experience. Keep at it friend. It’ll come, with time, patience and practice.

You are getting good advice. Amps generally have a baked in sound, that they are designed to showcase, and that sound is when the amp is set flat. Your bass is active, so it also has a baked in sound. Keep your tone knobs at their detente to find it.

If you don’t like that sound, chances are that one or the other’s is causing your problems. The amp is the quickest fix. If you have the funds, take your bass with you to audition as many amps as you can find - even ones out of your price range - to get a feel for what you’re looking for.

 

[Maynjo]

Maiden, Rush....etc...bands who's bass players aren't buried in the mix. Thanks man. Maybe your right about the Fender amp

Geddy's tone in rush is pretty ugly all by itself IMHO. It's only when it's in a full mix that it sounds (arguably) good. Here is a link to Tom Sawyer with the bass isolated.

 

[JRA]

amplification is just highlighting all my sloppiness

yep: amps amplify what it is you're doing = "sloppiness" can be amplified. i think you need to get out 'into the world' more with your playing...lessons, playing with others/jams, open mics, etc.

I have no live sound experience.

we're all experts when no one is listening. good luck with your playing!

 

[tfer]

Geddy's tone in rush is pretty ugly all by itself IMHO. It's only when it's in a full mix that it sounds (arguably) good. Here is a link to Tom Sawyer with the bass isolated.

Those isolated bass lines are pretty educational.

Listen to Steve Harris isolated sometime. They honestly sound like crap. Then you put the rest of the band with him, and it’s absolute magic.

I think all players, no matter what the instrument, worry about the minor things far too much. Nobody wants to make mistakes, but when a band tracks live, those mistakes are where the greatness lives.

 

[N4860]

Thanks for responding. I know my question is fairly vague. I just feel that when I use amplification, that it sounds very sloppy, whether I try fx- or just DI, whereas when I'm unplugged, everything sounds fantastic to me. Maybe I'm just not as good as I thought I was, and amplification is just highlighting all my sloppiness that I didnt hear before. Just not sure anymore.

Also, consider the room that you're playing in as that will certainly impact the sound your ears are hearing from the amp. Perhaps try the amp in different parts of the room, or sitting (or standing) at different ranges from the amp. Or maybe just an entirely different room.

 

[Andy Daventry]

By myself. When playing with other musicians I'm fine with the sound.

Then there is no problem. This is how it should be.

The BXR 200 was not the strongest of the BXR range. The best that can be said for it is that it was better than the 100. It was boomy, with an inbuilt mid scoop. The 25 and 300, on the other hand, were great amps.

 

[whero]

I have a basic question that is probably a piece of cake for most of you. I've actually been playing awhile and would consider myself a decent player. But I have no live sound experience. I've always played, unplugged in my house. My bass sounds great acoustically, but when I try and get a good tone through my amp (Fender bmx 200), I fail miserably. My bass is a Bogart from a small company in Germany, and is considered a good guitar line. My amp has a fader bar eq built in, but no matter how I tweak things I cant get to where I feel like it doesn't sound like crap. Anybody have any advice?

There are a bunch of things going on here I don't understand.

You have a Bogart bass. You've only been playing it unplugged, so you don't know what it sounds like amplified. I only see solid body basses on Bogart's website. But you say it sounds great acoustically. What are you actually listening to acoustically if you're playing a solid body bass unplugged? I'd say almost every solid body bass I've ever played unplugged sounds almost exactly the same. You're not really hearing any tone.

Now, when you plug it in you've got the pickups, the active pre-amp, volume and tone settings on the bass, then your Fender amp. I'm not familiar with the "BMX" series, it sounds like it has a graphic equaliser ("fader bar eq"), probably still has some HIGH/LOW or BASS/TREBLE rotary knobs, and maybe has some tone control switches like DEEP or BRIGHT, etc. These things, plus your speakers and speaker cabinet are all going to colour your tone.

If you don't like your amplified tone, my advice is to first try and find the instruction manual for your amp so you know what all the controls are for. Next, set everything at "12:00" - all your rotary knobs and and EQ sliders in the middle position and any switches off. Next, start changing one thing at a time. What does it sound like if you turn the HIGH control down a third? Two thirds? All the way? Now try up a third. Two thirds. All the way. Now put it back in the middle position and try the same thing with the LOW control. Then do the same with the EQ sliders. Then try doing the sliders two at a time, three at a time, four at a time. Try different slider patterns - a "smile", and "frown", a diagonal line running up, then down. A wave pattern. Then try some of those things and pressing in the DEEP or BRIGHT switches. You can waste a lot of time doing this, and hear a lot of different sounds you hate and very little you like. But you will learn what each control does, and the effect it has on your tone when you turn one thing up or another thing down. Eventually you'll learn enough to be able to use the differnet controls together to shape your sound the way you want.

One last thought. It might not be that your amplified tone is "crap". It might just be that it's not the tone you want - the one inside your head that you're trying to get in the real world. Keep experimenting. You'll get there.

 

[JaketheB]

Listen to some isolated bass tracks from hugely popular songs and you'll realise they sound like rubbish alone. Mid boosted bass eq sounds worse by itself (imo) compared mid cut eq BUT boosted low mid will generally sound good in the mix.

I tend to have everything flat except a small to moderate boost in the low mid. Keeping it simple tends to work especially with a pbass.