Double Bass Tonedexter 2 Initial Thoughts and Reviews

[Hasty]

So theoretically, if I train my wavemap on my big bass with Yamahiko, if my EUB has the same scale/strings/pickup should the wavemap translate without modification?

Yes. They don't even have to be the same pickups/scale/strings.

@DoubleMIDI pretty much nailed it with way more depth and detail than I ever could so check out that response.

Will it be a perfect representation of your big bass with the Yamahiko? Probably not, but maybe.

Will it sound like a nice double bass? Probably (depending on the EUB, the quality of the WAV, and your ability to tweak settings).

I'm about 98% sure I remember this being a thing in the electric violin world and they even used to have different wavemaps available for Yamaha violins and I think there was a third party that was making some for the silent guitars and cellos IIRC.

I had a wavemap on my legacy ToneDexter that I created for the SLB200 and it sounded like a wonderfully full bodied DB with warmth and woodiness. I'm sure I could probably do the same with this one too, given enough time. If I can recreate it I'll see if I can export it and share it.

 

[Happy Steve]

If you still have the TD1 wavemap on a computer or still have it in the TD1, you should be able to transfer it to the TD II.

I had a play with the morph feature yesterday. I now understand why it is called 'morph'. My idea of importing an IR with an eq curve to apply does not really work - 100% gives you just the eq curve as your wavemap. Where it might be more useful is in fine tuning changes you want to make to a wavemap.
For instance, I tried a 6dB dip around 250 Hz and baked it into a new wavemap, but it was too much, so I had to go back and repeat with less cut. Instead I could have applied a 12dB dip, baked that, then morphed between the original and the -12dB version, adjusting the percentage until I found my ideal amount of cut.
I found a couple of gotchas with the morph tool:
- morphing will bake in any reduction of spaciousness applied to the morph pair of wavemaps - keep them both at 100% unless you want to reduce spaciousness in the resultimng wavemap
- if the morph screen times out and goes back to the wavemap view, returning to the morph screen may have a different wavemap as the morph candidate - I think it selects the first wavemap by default, not necessarily the one you were using while in the morph screen

<inner Nerd> It's so cool seeing the changes as you adjust the morph percentage! </inner Nerd>
Steve

 

[Hasty]

Did this thing just become my primary setup for every type of gig I do from here on out?

I read through the manual again, looked at some FAQ's, and realized that in addition to all the routing options I can also load 3rd party IR's. This means I can use the TRS input jack for all things DB/Dual Yamahiko and the Input for electric and route WAV's and IR's to their appropriate inputs. So now the electric bass has slots for an Ampeg 810, an Ampeg B15 flip top, and an EBS 410... which all sound pretty great.

Sure I've got other pedals, preamps, and other bric a brac... but as I get older I definitely appreciate small streamlined setups and this one definitely has that going for it.

 

[Hasty]

Well I just found yet another reason to be impressed with v2 of the ToneDexter. I learned that you can select custom FX loop routing options for each WaveMap. So I can bypass the FX loop on all things DB related and run my electric bass through the FX loop and external pedals on EB specific mappings. This means I can add my Smoothie compressor and Fwonkbeta to the board and not have to worry about tapdancing with the pedalboard whenever I want to use them! Super cool feature.

However I did also just learn that while it will support 3rd party IR's, James isn't planning on including NAM's as the processing structure of the TDII doesn't support it. I guess I can learn to live with that.

 

[bassically_eli]

Has anyone found a way to use the aux input for a recording/backing track during practice while also using the input for your instrument? It seems all the routing options cut out either the left or right channel on the aux input, or else cuts out the instrument input.

I assumed the TD would make a great practice tool based on all the inputs, but the routing options arent really good for that. I am wanting this functionality for my EUB and my bass guitars, especially when traveling and practicing with headphones.

 

[flatback]

I would ask James. If it is possible to do he will want to help you do it. If it is not possible he would also be the first to know.
I think he has a DM here on TB.

 

[Happy Steve]

Has anyone found a way to use the aux input for a recording/backing track during practice while also using the input for your instrument?

I have had success with running a Boss looper into the aux in in parallel with my bass, but it was mono only. Have you tried playing your backing track in through the effects return? The schematic on p38 of the manual shows the effects loop as stereo.

 

[Happy Steve]

While I am here, I will mention that I got a used Ehrlund pickup and preamp a few weeks ago. After two gigs I can confirm that it works into the TD II (with or without the Ehrlund preamp). I have to push the input and output gains a bit higher without the preamp, but there is still several dB more gain available. Then there is always the boost button if I wanted/needed more...
It is interesting to see how very different the wavemap for the Ehrlund looks in comparison to the Dyn B wavemaps. The TD doesn't add a huge improvement in the sound as the EAP sounds pretty good out of the box (tin ). I will keep using it because it does sound nicer and I get all the other great features like tuner, DI out, mute, etc.
I thought about making a TRS ended cable to switch the TD to 10Mohm for the Ehrlund,, but I don't know that it would make a lot of difference.

 

[Happy Steve]

I have had success with running a Boss looper into the aux in in parallel with my bass, but it was mono only. Have you tried playing your backing track in through the effects return? The schematic on p38 of the manual shows the effects loop as stereo.

I just tried playing a backing track via the effects return and it can play a stereo input, but the 'In' or 'Aux in' are cut out. I guess you need to use the blend option and you only have 'In' plus 'Aux 1' or 'Aux 2' to blend with (ie tip or ring of the Aux in connection)

 

[bassically_eli]

I just tried playing a backing track via the effects return and it can play a stereo input, but the 'In' or 'Aux in' are cut out. I guess you need to use the blend option and you only have 'In' plus 'Aux 1' or 'Aux 2' to blend with (ie tip or ring of the Aux in connection)

Right. I’m pretty sure i tried every possible routing option with the all the possible inputs, and it seems that you can really only get two channels throughput. Keep in mind need three for stereo input + instrument. The only work arounds i found were to (1) switch my phone to mono output or (2) use another device/adapter—I’ve been using a little 1/8” Y-splitter/summer.

I’ll email James about this and maybe they’ll fix it with a software update. I would love to just be able to plug a Bluetooth adapter into the aux port. I am surprised it’s not a bit of a marketing issue for them because whenever one sees a pedal with a stereo aux input, the assumption is that it’s for practice/music playback.

 

[Happy Steve]

I got the TD II software v4.0 update email from Audio Sprockets on Christmas Eve - nice present!

I upgraded to v4.0 - the training with the new 'higher resolution' algorithm seems to be just as quick and possibly sounds a little more detailed - it's hard for me to pick. It sounds great anyway.
I doubt I will use the compressor with upright, maybe with my jazz bass sometime (I keep a 'Bassman 410'.IR in a wavemap just in case).

I was initially disappointed - I thought the wavemap display in the Tone shaping / Anti-feedback screen had been shrunk drastically. I like to keep photos of these graphs for reference.

I could see the original full size display in a screenshot in the v4 manual, and I discovered that the full size display can be accessed by tapping on 'Top Frequency'. I don't think that is mentioned in the manual.

Steve

 

[bassically_eli]

Does anyone here have experience using the TD with the Realist Lifeline as well as the Yamahiko? I’ve been very tempted by the Yamahiko for a long time now (only considering the single element) but am not confident that the Y+TD will be better than the LL+TD.

Mostly wondering if the TD will benefit from a pickup with a little more higher frequency content.

I also thought about experimenting with bridge wing pickups like the KNA-DB1 or Vic’s (have a couple of Vic’s lying around), but those don’t fit the bridge on my acoustic DB.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

No experience, but boosting highs also boosts high noise, so a pickup with more high frequency content will generate less noise with the same frequency distribution.

 

[Wesito]

I have the latest ToneDexter II and love it. I am a violist and am playing my acoustic-electric viola pizz through a Fishman V-200 pickup, ToneDexter II and Electro-Harmonix Pico POG to get as close as I can to an upright bass.

The result is amazing and I have gotten praises from both bassists and cellists. The tone is like a dark cello and a little bit close to a bass. You don’t hear artifacts or glitches from the POG, so it’s quite convincing musically and sound-wise.

However, I am wondering whether any of you might know if I could have any success playing my setup through the ToneDexter using an upright bass wavemap. My son is a professional bassist and is considering getting a ToneDexter, so he might potentially be able to send me a wavemap if he decides to get one.

Another thought is to EQ out the cello resonances and enhance the bass resonances. Or a cello wavemap may be more workable?

Anyone have experience with this or ideas about what might work for what I’m after?

 

[sidonbass]

I recently purchased the Tonedexter II for my upright bass. I’ve watched videos, and I have the manual. I’m stuck! I’ve spent a few hours trying to record my first wave map without any luck. I emailed them for support and they directed me to Sweetwater. Sweetwater is not helpful. I would hate to send it back because of its potential to be exactly what I’m looking for, and because of my lack of tech skills. Anyone know of a good way to learn the basics of the Tonedexter? I need a “Tonedexter for Dummies” video.

 

[JBarz]

It’s really simple, man. You’re probably just missing a small detail like how to engage phantom power when making the map or something silly like that. Can you be more specific about your difficulties?

 

[Clyde Stats]

Also, what pick-up are you using? Certain bass pick-ups don’t work well with the TD. Also, as @JBarz says, it’s hard to troubleshoot the problem without a specific description of what you’re doing and what’s not working.

 

[bassically_eli]

You need to start by (1) verifying that your mic is working with the TD, (2) your pickup is working, then (3) put it in training mode and start playing. That’s it, you’re done!

Well, that’s all it takes to make a wavemap, but you can spend hour’s modifying it.

 

[Happy Steve]

I’m stuck! I’ve spent a few hours trying to record my first wave map without any luck

Hi Sid,
maybe we can help you step through the training process....

Once everything is plugged in and ready to go, my training takes only a couple of minutes.

Q1: First, can you please let us know if you get into the training screen when you click the mute button, then the boost button?

If that was successful, you should see the Level setting screen appear.

Q2: On that screen, when you pluck or bow the bass, do you see the mic and pickup level indicators both show a signal?

Let us know how those first steps go and we can pose the next questions or try to trouble shoot those steps.

Good luck, Steve

 

[sidonbass]

Hello all
Thanks for offering help. After 2 different calls with Sweetwater techs walking me through everything and it still not working, they think it’s defective and they’re sending me a replacement.
Basically it appears the output jack isn’t sending anything to my amp, even though the screen shows levels input and output. When I plugged it into the headphone/aux jack, the sound does come out of my amp, so I’m hoping they’re right. I will know for sure in a few days and will post my results with the new one.