Double Bass ToneDexter for EUBs

[bassically_eli]

This thread is for anyone interested in using the ToneDexter (I or II) with an EUB. @Hasty has posted some very nice sound samples of a Yamaha EUB with the TD, and I have had some success myself.

If you’ve tried this, how did you get or make the wavemaps? Are you interested in sharing or swapping wavemaps? I am hoping that this thread will encourage bass players to create and share wavemaps for various EUB and pickup combinations.

 

[Ketbass]

Following, as I have a Knutson Messenger EUB and enjoy playing it, it’s well built and easy in/out on a gig but is lacking in real upright sound. Very little call around here for an actual DB, so…

 

[John Chambliss]

Following as well. I have a BSX Allegro and used to own a TD-1. I tried various wave maps that someone had created on TB, using a different EUB, but I never really got good results from them. I couldn't think of anyway to generate a decent wave map by training with the BSX. I get a decent sound now going through a RedEye, or an old Yamaha NE-1. A little reverb helps with arco.

 

[Ketbass]

Following as well. I have a BSX Allegro and used to own a TD-1. I tried various wave maps that someone had created on TB, using a different EUB, but I never really got good results from them. I couldn't think of anyway to generate a decent wave map by training with the BSX. I get a decent sound now going through a RedEye, or an old Yamaha NE-1. A little reverb helps with arco.

I’m curious, don’t you train the TD with a real bass and use those wave maps; maybe tweaked some? Or am I missing something? My thought was to record using my Ischell contact mic, maybe with the piezo mixed in. I get pretty nice tone from those two inputs. Then tweak some and use those wave maps. Help me not to spend serious jack if I’ve thought this through erroneously.

 

[bassically_eli]

I’m curious, don’t you train the TD with a real bass and use those wave maps; maybe tweaked some? Or am I missing something? My thought was to record using my Ischell contact mic, maybe with the piezo mixed in. I get pretty nice tone from those two inputs. Then tweak some and use those wave maps. Help me not to spend serious jack if I’ve thought this through erroneously.

Not sure if I’m understanding you correctly, but I dont think you would want to mix the two signals during training. To train, you need a mic in the XLR input recording the acoustic sound of your bass while the pickup is connected to the instrument or aux input. Think of the pickup as point A and the mic as point B. The wavemap takes your signal from point A to point B. Once the unit is trained (i.e. the wavemap is created), the device knows the path and doesn’t need the mic anymore.

You probably want to use an open air mic for training instead of the Ischell. A cheap, small diaphragm condenser can actually be pretty ideal for this kind of application. That said, the Ischell is probably good enough too, assuming you’ve found the sweet spot for it.

All that said, the TD can blend multiple signals, with or without training. I just dont think you would want to blend two totally different devices for the input during training. I think you would only do that if you had a multi-element system (two pickup sensors with stereo output for example).

*all of the above is WRT the TD-II. I have never used the original.

 

[Ketbass]

Not sure if I’m understanding you correctly, but I dont think you would want to mix the two signals during training. To train, you need a mic in the XLR input recording the acoustic sound of your bass while the pickup is connected to the instrument or aux input. Think of the pickup as point A and the mic as point B. The wavemap takes your signal from point A to point B. Once the unit is trained (i.e. the wavemap is created), the device knows the path and doesn’t need the mic anymore.

You probably want to use an open air mic for training instead of the Ischell. A cheap, small diaphragm condenser can actually be pretty ideal for this kind of application. That said, the Ischell is probably good enough too, assuming you’ve found the sweet spot for it.

All that said, the TD can blend multiple signals, with or without training. I just dont think you would want to blend two totally different devices for the input during training. I think you would only do that if you had a multi-element system (two pickup sensors with stereo output for example).

*all of the above is WRT the TD-II. I have never used the original.

I was just figuring my Ischell is a mic with an xlr connection and gives super nice tone to my bass. Although I have used a mic when recording and it sounded good too mixed with a piezo

 

[Wasnex]

I was just figuring my Ischell is a mic with an xlr connection and gives super nice tone to my bass. Although I have used a mic when recording and it sounded good too mixed with a piezo

The point of the ToneDexter is to process the signal from your contact mic so it sounds more like the bass.

So you could feed a signal from the Ischell to the ToneDexter. A second mic is then used to pick up the acoustic sound. The ToneDexter compares the acoustic sound to the sound from the contact mic and applies processing to try and make them sound the same.

If your Ischell already sound authentic to the bass, you don't need a ToneDexter.

 

[Wasnex]

Many EUBs use magnetic pickups. AFAIK, the ToneDexter does not work great with magnetic pickups.

I would expect the efficacy of using a wavemap from an acoustic instrument to make solid body bass sound like an acoustic instrument to be pretty low. There may be some benefit, but I wouldn't expect it to be all that authentic.

Each bass has it's own unique way of vibrating. Also the signal from each bass/pickup combination will be unique. Placement of the pickup on the bass is also a big factor. ToneDexter compares the unique signal delivered by the pickup to the way the bass sounds acoustically and them tries to resolve the differences.

Change the bass, pickup, or pickup placement and the electronic signal changes...meaning the ToneDexter is no longer trained to make the necessary corrections.

 

[bassically_eli]

The yamaha has a piezo pickup, but i actually use a realist lifeline on it with the TD because that’s what i have on my acoustic DB. I think using the same pickup helps a lot with copying and modifying the wavemaps for an EUB. You will, in all likelihood, need to modify the wavemap significantly for an EUB.

The v1 ToneDexter had instructions on how to modify a wavemap to match a different instrument using a DAW, but now you can do it natively on the TD-ii. The most useful setting for this IME is the spaciousness setting. I decreased this to <100% for my DB to improve clarity, but I increased it to well over 100% for the SLB200. That really seemed to help simulate a vabrating top.

I’m not sure which EUBs only have a magnetic pickup. The ones I can think of off the top of my head have a piezo, or else they have both magnetic and piezo pups.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Mmm. I’m interested in this now. Can someone post some sound samples? Before and after? Pretty please?