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Trace Elliot/Ashdown History

Is there anyone who knows the story behind Trace Elliot and Ashdown? Ivan Mike did a nice job on the AMP/SWR/Thunderfunk/Eden history and while reading the new BG magazine review of the new Trace 210 combo I began to wonder how that whole Trace/Ashdown thing went down. Anyone know?

Thanks!

Buzz
 
Is there anyone who knows the story behind Trace Elliot and Ashdown? Ivan Mike did a nice job on the AMP/SWR/Thunderfunk/Eden history and while reading the new BG magazine review of the new Trace 210 combo I began to wonder how that whole Trace/Ashdown thing went down. Anyone know?

Thanks!

Buzz


Having been an old Trace devotee and a former endorser, here's my somewhat biased/bitter take on the whole thing, edited for brevity:

Trace started out making custom bass gear for John Entwistle, Mark King and the like. They gradually developed into a big company, making guitar amps, acoustic instrument stuff, and PA (I have one - sounds amazing, esp for bass). Their original stuff was the best on the market at that time - SWR & Eden were distant also-rans. Compare the Trace 2x10 combo with the Eden or SWR counterpart; soundwise, build quality, volume... in a league of their own; I rest my case. I had a big Electric Bass rig (2x10 combo plus 15" extension), acoustic bass amp for my Taylor AB1, and the Trace Acoustic PA as part of the endorsement deal. Used it for many years and had the best electric bass sound in town. Have recently moved on - kept the PA - it's amazing.

The Kaman corporation bought them out in the mid 90's, fired a lot of the old staff, started cheaping the stuff out till it sounded like junk. Lots of quality control problems, breakdowns, and it now sounded like ****.

They flipped it to Gibson about 3 years later, who bassically shut it down. Acoustics amps were still available by special order only - I don't think anybody was stocking it anymore.

Gibson flipped it two or three years ago to Peavey, who are reintroducing it. I tried the stuff at NAMM 06, and was not impressed; looked like Trace, sounded like Peavey. Other peoples opinions may differ, and the new stuff may be better; who knows. I do know I played the amps for about 30 seconds - sounded like 1982 all over again - the Pre-Trace days.

Ashdown was started about 10 years ago by Mr. Mark Gooday and a bunch of other really good blokes from the original Trace Elliot staff. Have taken the initial Trace designs and updated them. Their speakers are different now - darker, bassier, a bit boxier - amps are similar to the old Trace stuff in sound/power. Their new Mark King signature model amp was virtually identical to the amp in my Trace 1225V combo - interestingly enough originally designed for Mark King also - he used a WALL of them back in the day. Originally it had 2x10's and 2x5", later changed to 2x10 + the best tweeter ever in a bass amp, and second only now to the stuff Jim Bergantino uses.

Trace and Gooday were ALWAYS at the forefront of bass amplification, very innovative stuff; I think the Ashdown stuff more reflects the current fascination with retro crap, and eventually when this 'pre-bass with a pick and flatwounds around my knees through an SVT' fad dies a much-deserved death, they might get back to making some good high-end 'hi-fi' bass stuff like they used to. In the meantime, they are building very good 'retro' stuff, and making lots of money, and deservedly so. They raised the game on bass gear in the 80's and 90's, taking it to new heights; they deserve all the success they receive, IMHO.

Gibson, on the other hand... Trace, Tobias, Steinberger, Oberheim to mention but a few... they take great stuff and turn it into a pile of junk out of pure greed. Couldn't care less about music, instruments, or musicians. They'd be just as happy making Endoscopes out of barbed wire if they could make money at it - they'd bribe a bunch of quack doctors to tell you how good it was for you. Dreadful. I personally won't buy so much as a guitar pick from them - EVER.

The history of the Kaman corporation is NOT much better, I'm afraid, and they bought Genz-Benz... which is why I won't be buying one of those anytime soon.

I hope Peavey does a good job with Trace - they have the old factory; unfortunately, they DON'T have the old brains; Mark Gooday and Company.

Just my 2 cents, and IMHO. You're free to love Gibson, Kaman, and Peavey if you like; see 'Stockholm Syndrome' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome


Cameron
 
Yowzer!
Bassflute, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

The BG article says "It was quite a surprise when Peavey recently announced that it had acquired Trace Elliot, rehired a number of the former designers and engineers, and planned to restore the company to it's previous glory. With support from Peavey, the new Trace Elliot amps would still be made in England." It also mentions Paul Stevens, the product design and development manager at Trace Elliot.

Did Paul and Mark work together? If so, did he have anything to do with Ashdown?
 
Having been an old Trace devotee and a former endorser, here's my somewhat biased/bitter take on the whole thing, edited for brevity:

Trace started out making custom bass gear for John Entwistle, Mark King and the like. They gradually developed into a big company, making guitar amps, acoustic instrument stuff, and PA (I have one - sounds amazing, esp for bass). Their original stuff was the best on the market at that time - SWR & Eden were distant also-rans. Compare the Trace 2x10 combo with the Eden or SWR counterpart; soundwise, build quality, volume... in a league of their own; I rest my case. I had a big Electric Bass rig (2x10 combo plus 15" extension), acoustic bass amp for my Taylor AB1, and the Trace Acoustic PA as part of the endorsement deal. Used it for many years and had the best electric bass sound in town. Have recently moved on - kept the PA - it's amazing.

The Kaman corporation bought them out in the mid 90's, fired a lot of the old staff, started cheaping the stuff out till it sounded like junk. Lots of quality control problems, breakdowns, and it now sounded like ****.

They flipped it to Gibson about 3 years later, who bassically shut it down. Acoustics amps were still available by special order only - I don't think anybody was stocking it anymore.

Gibson flipped it two or three years ago to Peavey, who are reintroducing it. I tried the stuff at NAMM 06, and was not impressed; looked like Trace, sounded like Peavey. Other peoples opinions may differ, and the new stuff may be better; who knows. I do know I played the amps for about 30 seconds - sounded like 1982 all over again - the Pre-Trace days.

Ashdown was started about 10 years ago by Mr. Mark Gooday and a bunch of other really good blokes from the original Trace Elliot staff. Have taken the initial Trace designs and updated them. Their speakers are different now - darker, bassier, a bit boxier - amps are similar to the old Trace stuff in sound/power. Their new Mark King signature model amp was virtually identical to the amp in my Trace 1225V combo - interestingly enough originally designed for Mark King also - he used a WALL of them back in the day. Originally it had 2x10's and 2x5", later changed to 2x10 + the best tweeter ever in a bass amp, and second only now to the stuff Jim Bergantino uses.

Trace and Gooday were ALWAYS at the forefront of bass amplification, very innovative stuff; I think the Ashdown stuff more reflects the current fascination with retro crap, and eventually when this 'pre-bass with a pick and flatwounds around my knees through an SVT' fad dies a much-deserved death, they might get back to making some good high-end 'hi-fi' bass stuff like they used to. In the meantime, they are building very good 'retro' stuff, and making lots of money, and deservedly so. They raised the game on bass gear in the 80's and 90's, taking it to new heights; they deserve all the success they receive, IMHO.

Gibson, on the other hand... Trace, Tobias, Steinberger, Oberheim to mention but a few... they take great stuff and turn it into a pile of junk out of pure greed. Couldn't care less about music, instruments, or musicians. They'd be just as happy making Endoscopes out of barbed wire if they could make money at it - they'd bribe a bunch of quack doctors to tell you how good it was for you. Dreadful. I personally won't buy so much as a guitar pick from them - EVER.

The history of the Kaman corporation is NOT much better, I'm afraid, and they bought Genz-Benz... which is why I won't be buying one of those anytime soon.

I hope Peavey does a good job with Trace - they have the old factory; unfortunately, they DON'T have the old brains; Mark Gooday and Company.

Just my 2 cents, and IMHO. You're free to love Gibson, Kaman, and Peavey if you like; see 'Stockholm Syndrome' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome


Cameron
I kinna like my Gibson Trace Elliot, thankyou very much.

you just think you know what your talking about

British audio told me, it was the same blokes at Gibson that were at trace putting theese together.

AH1000-controls-1.gif
 
I kinna like my Gibson Trace Elliot, thankyou very much.

you just think you know what your talking about

British audio told me, it was the same blokes at Gibson that were at trace putting theese together.

AH1000-controls-1.gif

I think by that time it may have been old stock. I do know what I am talking about, and lived through those days (I was a Trace endorser before the buyout, so was in touch and involved on a regular basis).

And it was NOT all the same blokes - the leads of the company were gone.

It is such a shame that whenever big money gets involved, all progress seems to stop completely. Happens time and time again.

Great amp you've got there.

Cameron
 
you just think you know what your talking about

British audio told me, it was the same blokes at Gibson that were at trace putting theese together.

i almost refuse to not kill people when they say things like this. why trust what someone tells you? this is why guitar center and gibson and sooo many other companies are untrustable--they'll tell you anything to make money. they're like the government of musical instruments.
 
+1. Bassflute, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and providing valuable historical perspective, but that "fad" has lasted close to 40 years.

It was gone for about 20 years. Nobody was using that stuff from the late 70's to the mid 90's. Made a big comeback with the Grunge movement.

C.
 
It was gone for about 20 years. Nobody was using that stuff from the late 70's to the mid 90's. Made a big comeback with the Grunge movement.

C.

Oh you mean it disappeared during the 80's when digital delays, sequencers, pointy guitars, the Yamaha DX7, and hair spray reigned supreme. The grunge era really began in 1991, 16 years ago, and died not long after. That's still a pretty gosh darn long fad. Whatever happened to Kajagoogoo? They had the best bass sound ever. :eyebrow:
 
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It was gone for about 20 years. Nobody was using that stuff from the late 70's to the mid 90's. Made a big comeback with the Grunge movement.

C.
I wouldn't say "nobody." Related to sonicvi's point, while those at the top of the pop charts may not have used SVTs and Fender P's during that period, that stuff was quite popular in the punk/indie rock world, from the Ramones/Sex Pistols/Clash to Husker Du/Minutemen and onward. Those bands ultimately proved to be far more influential than the (IMHO) hacks who sold a lot more records during that time.
 
From speaking with a couple of original Trace Elliot guys, one of them being a former owner, Mark Gooday's status with Trace is sometimes exaggerated on his part.

They told me that before he left Trace he was pushing two things: the rotary EQ and VU meter. The two ideas were shot down at Trace. The amp he was pushing later became the first Ashdown amp.

Trace used contract engineers frequently. Ashdown has one of those former contractors, Clive Button, working for them. Maybe they have more, but that's the only one I know about for sure.