Trace Elliot, then and now.

[bking0217]

It appears, based on someone else's post earlier in the thread, that Michael was planning a presentation and wanted to gather some input from us to use in his content. His goal was not to establish a dialogue - clearly. Too bad.

Too bad, in deed. Hopefully this doesn't turn into another MiniMega. Those things are still on preorder at Guitar Center.

 

[Clark Dark]

QUOTE: Hello all. Michael Smith here from Trace Elliot/Peavey. I'm curious about your experiences with Trace Elliot gear all through the years. What did you like about the old stuff that's missing from the new? Thank you! /QUOTE


As it happens sometimes a thread will veer slightly one way or another. The concentration should've been on the change between the original Trace's vis a vis changes made by Peavey and Gibson. In an earlier post I said
"I hope Michael is listening and that there are some people listening to him.
"IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT". I would rather see Trace come back as they once were. Every mosfet, every valve, every attention to detail that made them one of the best if not 'the' best bass amps ever, than to see them watered down into something akin to Behringer or some other bargain line. I wonder if Hartley is listening."

Our feedback should be about doing it like it was originally done other than espousing what we like about the Trace Elliot line. The compression, the equalization, the valve/ss hybrids etc but done like the original Trace Elliot team did it, not like Gibson then Peavey did it. After all, that's what led to declining sales.

 

[gwangi]

After reading about how much quality components are in the Thunderfunk Amps I wish more amp companies do the same.

 

[bking0217]

After reading about how much quality components are in the Thunderfunk Amps I wish more amp companies do the same.

The Thunderfunk looks good, but is it $2K good? All I saw on their website was a lot of the same patting-myself-on-the-back that everyone else does.

 

[gwangi]

The Thunderfunk looks good, but is it $2K good? All I saw on their website was a lot of the same patting-myself-on-the-back that everyone else does.

I guess I should reword this, I saw a video with Dave Funk talking about the quality parts that he uses in his amps and how certain other amps use cheaper quality parts.

 

[Altitude]

The Thunderfunk looks good, but is it $2K good? All I saw on their website was a lot of the same patting-myself-on-the-back that everyone else does.

Funny you guys bring that amp up. I had a jones for one for years and finally picked up a TB550 about 4 years ago. By that point, though, I had kind of moved on in my mind. As good as the Thunderfunk was, and it was pretty good, it was still a relatively heavy solid state amp with what seemed like 50 dials on the front. It was what I wanted before, not now.

I had decided to like smaller, lighter amps with simpler controls that were working very well for me - so I didn't keep the TF for long.

This is why, if Peavey were to revive the Trace line, and if I were in charge of the product, I would make Trace a flagship line for up and coming technology and not a throwback line. I think that is the way to link the Trace brand cachet with a growing target buyer group. Also I think that Peavey lacks a brand that has that identity right now. I might look at what TC Electronics has done well recently as a model.

I dig that many people wouldn't agree with this, and would rather see Trace come back as a boutique valve amp company. Those amps would be cool for sure, and I might buy one. The brand wouldn't carry revenue though, and would need to pull its weight as a halo. It would be cool as art but not the way I would go.

 

[bking0217]

Funny you guys bring that amp up. I had a jones for one for years and finally picked up a TB550 about 4 years ago. By that point, though, I had kind of moved on in my mind. As good as the Thunderfunk was, and it was pretty good, it was still a relatively heavy solid state amp with what seemed like 50 dials on the front.

I had decided to like smaller, lighter amps with simpler controls that were working very well for me - so I didn't keep the TF for long.

This is why, if Peavey were to revive the Trace line, and if I were in charge of the product, I would make Trace a flagship line for up and coming technology and not a throwback line. I think that is the way to link the Trace brand cachet with a growing target buyer group. Also I think that Peavey lacks a brand that has that identity right now.

I dig that many people wouldn't agree with this, and would rather see Trace come back as a boutique valve amp company. Those amps would be cool for sure, and I might buy one. The brand wouldn't carry revenue though, and would need to pull its weight as a halo. It would be cool as art but not the way I would go.

Just me, I'd like TE to have the best of new technology with the old-style aesthetics. In my opinion, Trace Elliot was always king and I'd like to see them on top again. That won't happen reissuing 30-year old technology.

 

[Clark Dark]

but that 30 year old tech is what's driving all the praise comments and the veering away trying to fix what isn't broke has led to the demise of the brand.
as always YMMV

 

[Razman]

Just me, I'd like TE to have the best of new technology with the old-style aesthetics. In my opinion, Trace Elliot was always king and I'd like to see them on top again. That won't happen reissuing 30-year old technology.

And how old is the tube amp? Why are Precisions and Jazz basses so popular? People seem to pay big dollars for a lot of technology much older than 30 years.

Now adopting a modern business model that will succeed - that's a different story. All the best there, TE.

What will make or break them will be the "wow" factor. Unless their products can impress die-hard fans of the older stuff, they're done. Us critical TB'ers who aren't even in the market for a new amp will go down to our nearest retailer, try one out, and then go back home and post online our impressions. If we aren't singing praises on high then they're sunk, IMO.

 

[bking0217]

but that 30 year old tech is what's driving all the praise comments and the veering away trying to fix what isn't broke has led to the demise of the brand.
as always YMMV

The opinions I express are merely my own and I support your right to disagree with me.

 

[Altitude]

but that 30 year old tech is what's driving all the praise comments and the veering away trying to fix what isn't broke has led to the demise of the brand.

The praise comments on this thread are coming from a micro-slice of a micro-slice of the market pie, a few enthusiasts on an internet board, and they sound like nostalgia to me. I'm 44 myself, and I'll tell you that no brand can succeed marketing musical gear to my demographic.

Trace has failed because Peavey didn't put anything into it, simple. The products became undifferentiated and underpromoted. I have a CD Trace issued in the 90s full of music made by their high-profile endorsers (called "Also Available In Green"), and every one of those players eventually defected. There's just nothing there right now to support success - no interesting product, no promotion, no distribution, no artist support. But the name is still cool, and I think people would dig the signature look of the product if they revived it around interesting technology.

Peavey is capable of developing compelling, high-quality products. If they were to develop a 4-pound class D amp with 500-800 watts, a tube input stage, and a killer onboard compressor and DI, maybe a clean and dirty channel, and if that amp said Trace Elliot on the front, and if it had a cool green design...maybe something new like tone mapping with iPad support via bluetooth - yeah, I'd buy one for sure and I think many people would.

 

[ExGinger]

As a long-time TE user/owner/fan (currently a TE V-300H), I think the new Ashdown Retroglide 800 is pretty much what TE should have done a while ago.

In green and black, though.

And don't just make humongous touring pro stuff. If you're going to be a Mercedes-level amp company, portability is just as important as quality.

 

[Altitude]

As a long-time TE user/owner/fan (currently a TE V-300H), I think the new Ashdown Retroglide 800 is pretty much what TE should have done a while ago.

In green and black, though.

Exactly. Boy, Mark King will not give up on graphic EQ, will he?

 

[BlushResponse]

I just got back from dropping off a TE 15" cab. Looks like the guy I lent it to blew the speaker. Anyway, the guy at the shop used to work at Peavey. He had absolutely no faith in that company actually doing right by Trace Elliot. He told me to watch "Undercover Boss", the Peavey episode. I'm watching it now. It's on YouTube.

 

[bking0217]

If anyone's still following this thread, I got email confirmation from Trace Elliot that Michael Smith does in fact work for TE. He's out of the country right now doing a product show but he'll return to the forum to explain everything when he get back. If interested, I'll share the email.

 

[Arjank]

Back in the 80's when i started to play bass, Trace Elliot was THE brand for bass amplification in the Netherlands. If you played slap 'n pop you just had to have a 1048H.
The cabinet that I though was the most interesting was the 1818X, it's the precursor of the now very popular 15/6 format. Make an update of that cab by adding a tweeter or using a coaxial 10" or 8" mid/high unit and you have a state-of-the-art basscab.

 

[pvbassfan]

Hi Michael, aka pvbassfan. First of all, thank you so much for checking in. This is one thing I love about Talkbass. We get to talk with the guys at the top and all across the board here. The horse's mouth, so to speak.

I was a true Trace Elliot freak back in the 1990's. I was one of the few players here in Sonoma / Marin county who had not one but two Trace Elliots on stage. I had two AH 150's . One for me, and one for the drummer and guitar player to hear me. It was great, plus I used a stereo chorus, so it was really phat sounding.

My tone was definitive Mark King tone. That was the coveted tone that seemed unachievable to most, but I had it and gained the respect of all my peers and needless to say, I was in awe myself every time I heard my own tone. I had the cutting edge tone.

Now, I wouldn't ever own Trace Elliot. I have tried to capture lightning in a bottle and bought some older 1980's AH350's, AH500's and so on. They were all way too tired. They hissed, and just were no good. I understood what "dated tone" meant. I have always thought good tone is good tone and good tone is timeless. As far as old Level 42 goes, yes, it will ALWAYS sound good. But, for me, the honeymoon is over and I've moved on.

As far as the Peavey owned Trace Elliot goes like the new Trace Elliot AH1000 goes, I don't like them one bit. They sound sterile, boring, and beginner-ish. There is no edge to it and the "classic Trace Elliot mid scoop" is gone. Even though the button is still on the front panel, it doesn't at all sound like how I would want it to sound.

And, as far as people wanting to see Trace Elliot come out with class D stuff goes, I am not a fan. Yes, I see how the younger generation who grew up with class D like it and I certainly won't argue with the easy portability of it, but I hate the tone of class D stuff. I will never play it. Class D makes you work twice as hard for every single note. I am exhausted after only one song ! There is no substitute for the tone of a good old iron transformer. Sure it weighs more, but it is worth every sweat dropped while carrying it to the stage. I am 46 now and I HATE carrying gear. I have a dolly and I roll all my gear. My main rig is a Mesa Walkabout head and whatever cab I feel like using that day. A=t only 13 lbs, and a real iron transformer, it's a win-win.

So, I am being as honest as I can because anything less would be disrespectful to you. Let me also say that I am a HUGE Peavey fan and I own all Peavey Cirrus basses and Garz custom boutique basses. Peavey makes THE BEST production basses on the planet. USA models, of course. I don't even consider the Indonesian models to be real Peavey's but a copy of a Peavey. I also love Peavey bass amps. I've owned them all at one time or another.

So, in conclusion, "what's missing from the new that was in the old" is mojo. There was a magic to the old Trace stuff that I just don't see in the newer stuff. The old stuff was boutique, top of the line before SWR even existed. When I worked at Guitar Center in the 80's the older guys used to call it "Try Sellin' it" due to the hefty price tag. But, we all knew sporting a Trace rig then meant you were a big deal. Now, I see Trace Elliot as a competitor with Behringer and that's SAD.

Added 4/23/15 - I did own an AH 250 SMX about 7 years ago and it was KILLER. I loved everything about it. That was the last of the Mohicans, so to speak. I think the SMX line was the last amp that still had the old mojo and new technology. The tube / ss blend was stellar, as were the compression, and hi and low shelving. Now, THAT was an amp and I wouldn't be against owning one of those again but they are hard to find.

Sorry for the late reply, I was on the road in Canada and then on to Sweetwater for Gearfest, where I got to spend a lot of time with my buddy Dino from Ampeg! What a great guy and a true brand ambassador. I'm glad to see all these replies. There's some great stuff in the works and it's good to get all this feedback! Thanks for taking the time to respond!

 

[pvbassfan]

Hey and thanks for opening up this thread.

Back in the late 80s a friend of mine was playing in a band with a new bassist and when I went to see them play I saw my first Trace full stack - I think it was 2 4 x 10 cabs and I can't recall the head (except that it was UV'd).

I was in LOVE.

I couldn't afford it until much later, but I have since become the proud owner of a NICE classic Trace rig (and a 4 x 10 GPS7 200 watt combo for practice/side gigs). AH500X, 1048, 1528, 4052h. All vintage, all heavy, all amazing.

What is so amazing about the old Trace gear I have? It came from a time when Trace Elliot were PASSIONATE about their bass gear. They were INNOVATIVE, and leading edge. The were popular, and all the cool players had the gear, and it showed.

MY Vintage Trace gear (I mean pre-Gibson) has:

1. Power. Real power. Not artificial (oh I weigh 3 pounds and with some psychoacoustic tweaking I can fake the low end) bass - but REAL, DEEP, POWERFUL, EFFORTLESS BASS. My vintage Trace AH500X head pushes low B as effortlessly as high B; it pushes it easily and without ANY restraint. It pushes more low end than an Aguilar DB750 (side by side comparison). It is articulate, quiet, and thunderous - knocking shelves off the walls in the practice room next to ours twice. There's no artificial bump in the tone to compensate for real low end; I keep my input on 4 and my output on 2. Anything more drowns out our prog metal drummer and the Marshall JCM900 full stack. So there's power.
2. Flexibility. The Mark V preamp is incredibly flexible, allowing me to dial in any tone I want. The 11 band eq is more than sufficient. Dual mono design? Come on - that's outstanding. Two independent amps driving each side at 250 into 8. Nice. I prefer the more adjustable crossover in the Mark VI preamp's output stage to the fixed and less flexible crossover in the Mark V, but it's a minor quibble. The preamp lacks a few features (a tuner in would've been nice, and of course a valve preamp would be even nicer, but that's why you have the Type V preamp It's great to have options.
3. Tone. The tone from this amp is astounding. I play progressive rock and metal prog and this amp KILLS. From the very lowest B to the very highest B (I play six string Yamaha basses), it all sounds incredible. I don't use the preshaping scoops, but instead boost the mids, roll off the highs, and get great aggressive tone.
4. Looks. Black, green, UV. It looks amazing. Nuff sed.

What's not-so amazing about the Trace gear I have?
1. Weight. Everyone complains about the weight. I don't complain, even though my full rig weighs close to 300 pounds, because I don't bring my whole rig with me (I usually bring a 2x15 and the head). It's another reason to stay longer at the gym and isn't really a big deal.

That's it. there's no other downside to owning vintage Trace gear. It's bulletproof, massive sounding, flexible, powerful, great sounding, looking, and heavy.

New Trace gear... hmmmm. I don't really see any innovation in Trace gear after it plateaued rather early on. There was a lot of experimentation and attempts at pushing Trace gear to be not only the best, most reliable stuff out there, but also the leader in technical innovation. Multiband graphic eq's. Standalone "Bright Boxes." Crossover adjustable outputs. Dual mono amps. Valve and solid state in one box. Built in dual band compression. Line level options.

As noted by others, the biggest issue with new Trace is that I don't see any innovation in the past decade or so. Trace seems rather stuck in the past - and it's not the "Trace Elliot glory days past" (which would be cool), but the "Trace Elliot fading out of relevancy in the bass world" past. Trace could KILL with awesome, innovative neo cabs and Trace class D amps, flexible preamps, smaller, lighter, Class D done right. But nooooooooo.....

It's like Trace Elliot has gone into a coma and there is no PASSION about their bass gear. The website hasn't been updated in months (and went offline completely for a few weeks earlier this year). The new gear hasn't been new in years.

Trace has become like Apple in the 90s. No presence, no news, nothing innovative, nothing new, nothing revolutionary and almost nothing evolutionary.


Where did the passion to create the best bass gear on the planet go?


BTW, here's my big rig, I'm a passionate Trace owner and I bleed black and green.

Invalid Link Removed

Wow!! You must have a strong back! I'm sure that rig sounds great.

 

[pvbassfan]

Okay I don't mean to be out of the loop here but is Trace Elliot Company located in the U.S., I'm a little confused here, I thought maybe the company was located in England and had dealers here in the U.S. but apparently it doesn't look that way and again I do apologize for not being up on the Trace Elliot brand but I went to the website again and the customer service contact info is the Peavey location and I assumed since Peavey was closing everything they where also closing the doors on Trace Elliot, it does say on the Trace Elliot website that there product is made in the U.S.A.
So if somebody could enlighten me what exactly is going on and for the original OP please chime in so I can figure out who your U.S. dealers are and to also let me and everybody else know if Trace Elliot is still in business or not.

Long story, but we do have engineering in the UK and the US as well. We also still have some manufacturing here in the US. It more or less depends on the product whether it makes sense to do here or not. The reason for this thread is I just wanted to do some recon on what true fans miss about the brand. Obviously I can't be specific about what we're doing, but I can say that not only is Trace Elliot not going away, we've definitely committed to bouncing the brand back and reaching a new generation of T.E. players. I asked a young player what he thought of Trace Elliot recently and he said "who's that"? I was so tempted to say he was in a band with Monty Python but I bit my tongue!

 

[HaphAsSard]

Thread de-lownered!
(i.e., in Talkbassspeak: the OP came back instead of abandoning it after one or two posts...)