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Transcribing bass.. EQ's to dial it in

S

suraci

Apr 11, 2005
1,014
100
#1
I weekly, ( no pun! ) have to transcribe Elec Bass parts.. been doing it for nearly a decade.. for a steady gig. 70% of the time, I do my own thing, but sometimes the bass part is killer, and I wish to learn it, and educate myself in the bargain!
I have been using Amazing Slow Downer.. great tool.
But,,, occasionally I don't get enough isolation on the bass part. Slow Downer is only + or - 12 db.. sometimes 24 db is not enough to kill the vocals and isolate the bass just the way I want to hear it. Slow Downer only has 2 areas of bass, to do sculpting with.

It sometimes takes many hours to cop a bass parts feel ( accents, ghost notes ... not to mention notes ) . I own, but seldom use Ableton 5. Is Ableton an ideal DAW for serious sculpting of the track?
I want to lose the top end of the recording ( and middle too). Hearing a singer sing over and over gets old after a few hours. A killer bass part takes a LOT of attention ( = TIME spent) and I do not appreciate hearing the voice for that long, esp when I play one or two bars endlessly!! Sculpting low end for ideal transcribing is an art.
The final mix is for the whole, not usually just for the all important thump of bass drum, snare, and bass, one has to fool around searching for that right eq.
Sorry this is so lengthy.. While I am sure Ableton is a good tool for this ( with Warp turned off ) is there an even better tool?
Thank you
Edit: I use headphones... are they best for transcribing bass?
 
#3
I don't understand it from electronic or digital standpoint.. but aren't some eq's more fun, for sculpting the bass?
The 80 db sounds like a powerful surgical tool.
But in addition to huge cuts, what about the quality of the eq ( as applied esp to BASS )
?
And out of curiosity , is that plus or minus 40 db or plus or minus 80 db?

I use Mac, is Transcribe for PC and Mac too?

When I duck the higher frequencies down, I am left with a large number of variations on the low end.

I like to exaggerate the low end, including making it punchy, and or woofy.
By dong this I get a better sense of the actual vibe in the recording studio.. what the drummer and bass where emphasizing. After final mastering, the rhythm sections intent is often obscured.
When you transcribe, you want more than the notes, you want the subtle information.. that is the gist of this thread.
Thank you
 
#4
I use a DAW called Reaper to transcribe and record. I don't like to mess with the EQ too much when transcribing, for some reason it makes it HARDER for me to hear the bass when I cut the highs, maybe I just don't know how to set the EQ. You may want to take a look at Reaper though, it's available for Mac and has a one month uncrippled evaluation period. I comes with a bunch of plugins. Here is a link to the EQ plugin that I use and it's very flexible but it may not do what you need. http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/ReaEQ
 
#5
You are sort of making my point.. sort of ;)
You can play with a nice parametric and shape what you hear.. at least that is my hope.
Reaper, ok. Do you have any opinion about Ableton and its tone shaping ability?

I think about losing highs, and thus losing a sense of pitch. But it is up to us to DIAL in the best sound. I was also thinking this way
I can use a certain deep, AND punchy sound in order to breath with the bass players vibe... the accents he plays. Normally these accents are lost.

THEN I can re eq for more accurate pitch acquisition.

What say you?
 
#6
I have no experience with Ableton. It may have the same tools as Reaper I don't know. You have a lot more patience messing with the EQ than I do, I just do some slight adjustments and go. Slowing the track down is much more helpful to me than EQ settings.
 
#7
I slow it down
I raise the pitch UP one octave
I boost lows significantly
I attenuate highs mids
But if pitch is in doubt 2 eq's, one for powerful deep bass with punch, the other for pitch

I am still learning about the digital eq
Plus I use earphones, not for any special reason
 
#9
I think you'd be well-served to invest in a better monitoring setup. Headphones are far from the best way to reproduce a track's low-end. Even the best ones struggle to reproduce frequencies below, say, 80Hz or so. Get a set of nearfields w/ a subwoofer. They don't have to be top-of-the-line or anything, they just have to be present and able to physically produce those lows. Should make a world of difference.

Best of luck!
J
 
#11
a pair of Genelec's , then, right!

I have been lazy with the phones. I have 2 pair of nearfields... guess it's time!
Laziness aside, bass travels through an apt wall.. and I hate to annoy neighbors
but I'll keep it down.

The Transcribe! has +20 db and - 80 db... unreal.

Have any of you transcribers out there, noticed that just copping the notes, does NOT necessarily cop the feel.
I will listen to a line repeatedly
write it down
BUT some magical thing, is still missing.
Music is definitely more than math.
I haven't counted the hours... but on a five minute pop tune, I have spend a day working on it, and I still don't own it. And a bass players gig, is to OWN whatever he plays.
Thanks for suggestions.. all were on the money.
 
#12
+1 on Transcribe! I've used it for years... Fine adjusting the pitch, looping, etc. is great. You can save a section with 10 loops.

I use Celemony Melodyne to convert bass lines to MIDI, then the transcription program built into CuBase to print out the sheet music. You can also double your bass line with a synth part, etc or edit tweak, fretless notes that are out of tune, etc., etc.
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30 day free trial available here:
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It works stand alone or in a DAW. One warnong though, my computer is only 2 years and it pushes everything to the max to work. I takes a really good computer to run this especially as a stand alone program.

Have fun!
 
#13
+1 on Transcribe! I've used it for years... Fine adjusting the pitch, looping, etc. is great. Save a short section at 60% speed with 10 loops, for example.

I use Celemony Melodyne to convert bass lines to MIDI, then the transcription program built into CuBase to print out the sheet music.

Celemony Editor does much more than this but to date it is the best WAV to MIDI converter I've found for bass frequencies.

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30 day free trial available here:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It works stand alone or in a DAW. One warning though, my computer is only 2 years and it pushes everything to the max to work. I takes a really good computer to run this especially as a stand alone program.

Have fun!
 
#15
Yes...

Of course you still have to use the software. Often you will have to tweak the notes as it may select a harmonic over a fundamental and get's confused a bit with percussive clicks etc. Melodyne separates chords and harmony lines but can not separate one instrument out of the mix. I use it to quickly transcribe my own basslines mainly.

Melodyne converts WAV to MIDI but you still need a scoring program to convert MIDI to sheet music. Scoring programs very greatly in quality and cost. I was surprised at how well the scoring program in CuBase 5 works and it's all I use now. You can also quickly change keys, etc. once in a MIDI format and get the MIDI file to play the piano or other instrument.

Download the 30 day fully operational demo and give it a try.
 
#16
If you want to lose the vocals so you can concentrate on the bass line, you might want to start with a karaoke file. Many pop songs are available mixed without the vocals -- they are available for download as MP3 files zipped together with the karaoke lyrics files. I recently downloaded versions of Amerie - One Thing, and Michael Jackson - PYT to learn the bass lines, (along with tabs). You are right, it is much easier to hear the instruments without the vocals.
 

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