Transcribing

[Beff Juckley]

One area of practice that I'm keen on getting into is transcription. So far, when I learn songs I generally just learn the parts by ear and make mental note of what key it is in. If it's a fill or something of the like then I take it with me into my vocabulary. Much of this only comes into effect when I'm noodling, when I jam with others I play it fairly bland.
I know that I can work on moving what I learn as a whole into different keys, but what else would you recommend in delving into transcribing? Do you have a set way of transcribing pieces/songs? How do you incorporate this vocabulary into your wider playing? Are there any mistakes you wished you avoided when you started transcribing?

 

[JRA]

i generally write it down (notes-on-a-page/manuscript), but i've been using notation software for decades so it's easy for me to go that route. i do a lot of arranging for my bands (and for others) so it has become a habit for me to write down the bass parts --- and that process is also handy for this OKboomer who might forget what the part/key/form was supposed to be!

when i was younger, depending on the tune: i could remember parts and forms. these days i don't even bother. i write it down. if the band plays the tune often enough = i might develop a 'memory' for it. sometimes it's not the part itself that's difficult, but rather it's the form: repeats, segnos, codas, key changes, yada yada.

 

[BrotherMister]

In my experience this isn't uncommon question. All too often we are told to transcribe but very seldom are we told what to do with the information we've extracted. The transcription process you get a lot out of but what you can continue to get out of it is a lot greater.

A few immediate points come to mind. The first being, write it down. Granted most of the transcribing I do now I don't write it down anymore but the process of writing it down helps cement and clarify the material as well. It's one thing to play it from the record but to sit and write out exactly where every 16th note falls in the bar is another thing altogether but that process will help improve your sense of time as well as give your reading a shot in the arm.

Depending on the material you are transcribing there is a good chance there is a whole lot of information to digest and more often than not we don't even digest a fraction of it. I've found old transcriptions and came across lines, ideas etc that I totally overlooked because at the time I was looking for something else. This is very a much not being able to see the wood for trees thing so if you have it in writing you are able to discover more over time.

The second being the one you've pointed out. Play the material in every single key. You'll find this will help massively incorporating the vocabulary into your own playing. When you've only learned the material in one key you tend to only think of it as a Ebm7 line or something rather than a minor sound. So when you start hearing those sounds you'll be able to hear your ideas clearer because you have broken out of it a plug in from key into a sound that is applicable to more thing. The benefits here are the fact you'll be developing better technique and control of the instrument by playing material in every key but in the process of playing through each key your ear really dials in the sound of the material as well so it's a great workout for both hands and ears.

A side note to remember is that it usually takes some time for these things to crop up in your playing. Give it time and don't try to force it, or it ends up sounding bad. Just keep practising it and one day you'll hear it in your playing and then wonder how long it's been there without you noticing. Spoiler: Usually a lot longer before you noticed it!

By writing the music out you have a much better scope of being able to analyse what is going on. This allows you to see the development of an idea or reduce a wealth of information to a more conceptual idea. I'm more interested in taking away a concept or an idea rather than the specific line now. A great way to really dig into this is if you categorise the information. So write out all the lines that are from the same progression or chorus and you can see exactly how the musician navigates through these sections when they occur. I've done this process with walking lines and using A3 paper (or notation software) I've managed to have the entire chorus on a single line so I can see exactly what is happening on each progression but this then also allows me to mix and match lines breaking out of taking that musicians idea and starting to venture into developing my own. It's a bit of a lengthy process but the milage and material is so good for you.

Another important process is to take a line and basically improvise around that line. Change rhythms, sequences, syncopations, times, phrasings, groupings etc by doing this you are learning to develop an idea and creating your own vocabulary.

As for the process of transcribing itself I found I got far more benefit from doing so by listening to material repeatedly. To the point where it was almost sickening but I wanted to clearly have the sound in my ears that I could sing it without the instrument. Ideally you should be able to arrive at the point where you can sing the material without the recording or the instrument. This will really help your ears and sense of time in a big big way so slug on through the many frustrations it causes because the pay off is great, it's effectively an intense gym session for music. The next step is to learn it on your instrument, this is important because again you've removed the dependence of an instrument and focuses entirely on your ears and now you are working on being able to reproduce the sounds you hear in your head. Hurray! Again this process can be frustrating at times but the pay off is once again huge because you'll be able to realise ideas you are hearing in real time significantly quicker and be able to react to what other musicians are playing instantly. Basically you'll be well on your way to becoming a good musician and not just someone who plays an instrument.

I don't allow myself to slow down a recording. The reasoning being that music happens in real time. If you are on a gig or jamming and someone plays something you can't really stop and ask them to show you or slow it down. Granted you can't ask them to repeat the idea but by not slowing the recording down you are developing the ability to retain the sounds of a phrase or sequence in your head so if it crops up again you are in a better position to react to it. Slowing a recording down does improve accuracy and it is a process I'll use if I'm being paid to produce ultra accurate transcriptions but for my own sake and the sake of students I won't slow it down. I'd rather spend weeks and months slugging it out because the idea and sound will be so ingrained in my head the long term benefit is significantly better. Those are the transcriptions and information that have stayed with me longterm whereas the ones I've gotten from slowing down a recording I've retained a lot less of.

 

[Mushroo]

A minor clarification:

Writing down what you hear is called transcription.

Moving a song or exercise from one key to another key is called transposition.

They are both valuable skills, and well worth practicing. I'm assuming that you're actually asking for help with transcription but correct me if I'm wrong.

I had a very, very difficult time learning to transcribe. For two reasons: One, I am a little bit dyslexic and the musical symbols kind of 'dance' on the page in my vision. Two, I thought I was completely "tone deaf" (spoiler alert: I'm not actually tone deaf).

Here are the four things that helped me most, learning to transcribe:

1. A good teacher. I tried for ten freaking years to learn how to transcribe on my own. It just didn't happen. This is one of those instances, where I simply couldn't teach myself something I don't know!
2. A little bit every day, listen to recordings of famous music and follow along visually in the sheet music. This is how I learned to read/write English (my parents read Dr. Seuss out loud while I followed along visually in the book) so why not music?
   
3. Sight singing with a friendly group of people. I've been doing this (poorly!) since childhood, every Sunday in church. Or if you're not religious then maybe try a community chorus or glee club. Or serenade your neighbors with some socially-distanced holiday caroling; 'tis the season.
   
4. When it comes to the actual process of transcription: No recording, and no bass/piano! This might seem counter-intuitive and more difficult. But in the long run, I absolutely guarantee it is actually easier. Start with a melody you've known since childhood (like "Mary Had a Little Lamb" or "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star") sit down with nothing but a pencil and paper, and do your best. It will seem crazy the first time you do it this way (not having a recording to listen to, or an instrument to check your pitch) but I absolutely guarantee it will give the quickest results. If you find yourself having to constantly pause/rewind/slow-down the recording to transcribe a song, then you've chosen a song that is too difficult for your current skill set. Give yourself permission to be a beginner, and start with a nursery rhyme, not a Rush song! Choose an easier song first, so you can get a "base hit" and feel good about yourself. Work your way up to the more difficult songs, as your skills improve. It's going to be a long road (years and years) so be patient and forgiving with yourself.

 

[EarnestTBass]

For difficult passages I might start with first establishing the rhythm pattern and just write down the quarters, eighths and sixteenths without regard to pitches. Then tackle -what is the first note? or- what note do I hear on the down beat ? Is the next note higher or lower ? What intervals do I hear? There are five, six, seven notes in a series- what is the first one and what is the last note ? What notes are available in the key signature to fill in the middle? What chords am I connecting? Is there a brief tonal shift/key change ? If I don't have enough time to learn the whole song before the gig, what can I do at minimum just to avoid dead space ? or is this an essential element/ hook for the song that I should not ignore ?

One of my biggest regrets is that I did not start transcribing sooner. I figured out songs and then relied on memory to keep what I learned. That was mistake.

Write it down and keep a library. You can then return to a song many years later and more easily remember what you had learned. Make it a habit to write it down. Keep a transcription of every tune you invest your time to learn. Over time this will help you get better/faster at both figuring it out and writing it down.

Consider using MuseScore. I find the program fairly intuitive to use. It does everything you might need to build charts. When vocalists want to change a key, MuseScore will transpose charts with a click. And it's free.

 

[Beff Juckley]

A minor clarification:

Writing down what you hear is called transcription.

Moving a song or exercise from one key to another key is called transposition.

They are both valuable skills, and well worth practicing. I'm assuming that you're actually asking for help with transcription but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you for the clarification, I suppose I was asking about both. That tip about playing melodies is very helpful, there are a few Christmas carols that I have been thinking about since reading that. I often choose songs that are too difficult. This leads me to isolate the part in question and replay it about 70 times til I can work out the notes exactly. I do lack frustration tolerance and tend to want to perform as opposed to practice. I'd like to really dig into these things over my Christmas break, I'm quite bogged down with college at the moment.

 

[Beff Juckley]

start with first establishing the rhythm pattern and just write down the quarters, eighths and sixteenths without regard to pitches. what is the first note?what note do I hear on the down beat ? Is the next note higher or lower ? What intervals do I hear?

Thanks, this is something really practical that I'd love to try out. Most of what I have practiced in the past has been scales, so I'd like to be able to pull from them in this way. I hadn't seen that opportunity before.

 

[Spin Doctor]

In my experience this isn't uncommon question. All too often we are told to transcribe but very seldom are we told what to do with the information we've extracted. The transcription process you get a lot out of but what you can continue to get out of it is a lot greater.

A few immediate points come to mind. The first being, write it down. Granted most of the transcribing I do now I don't write it down anymore but the process of writing it down helps cement and clarify the material as well. It's one thing to play it from the record but to sit and write out exactly where every 16th note falls in the bar is another thing altogether but that process will help improve your sense of time as well as give your reading a shot in the arm.

Depending on the material you are transcribing there is a good chance there is a whole lot of information to digest and more often than not we don't even digest a fraction of it. I've found old transcriptions and came across lines, ideas etc that I totally overlooked because at the time I was looking for something else. This is very a much not being able to see the wood for trees thing so if you have it in writing you are able to discover more over time.

The second being the one you've pointed out. Play the material in every single key. You'll find this will help massively incorporating the vocabulary into your own playing. When you've only learned the material in one key you tend to only think of it as a Ebm7 line or something rather than a minor sound. So when you start hearing those sounds you'll be able to hear your ideas clearer because you have broken out of it a plug in from key into a sound that is applicable to more thing. The benefits here are the fact you'll be developing better technique and control of the instrument by playing material in every key but in the process of playing through each key your ear really dials in the sound of the material as well so it's a great workout for both hands and ears.

A side note to remember is that it usually takes some time for these things to crop up in your playing. Give it time and don't try to force it, or it ends up sounding bad. Just keep practising it and one day you'll hear it in your playing and then wonder how long it's been there without you noticing. Spoiler: Usually a lot longer before you noticed it!

By writing the music out you have a much better scope of being able to analyse what is going on. This allows you to see the development of an idea or reduce a wealth of information to a more conceptual idea. I'm more interested in taking away a concept or an idea rather than the specific line now. A great way to really dig into this is if you categorise the information. So write out all the lines that are from the same progression or chorus and you can see exactly how the musician navigates through these sections when they occur. I've done this process with walking lines and using A3 paper (or notation software) I've managed to have the entire chorus on a single line so I can see exactly what is happening on each progression but this then also allows me to mix and match lines breaking out of taking that musicians idea and starting to venture into developing my own. It's a bit of a lengthy process but the milage and material is so good for you.

Another important process is to take a line and basically improvise around that line. Change rhythms, sequences, syncopations, times, phrasings, groupings etc by doing this you are learning to develop an idea and creating your own vocabulary.

As for the process of transcribing itself I found I got far more benefit from doing so by listening to material repeatedly. To the point where it was almost sickening but I wanted to clearly have the sound in my ears that I could sing it without the instrument. Ideally you should be able to arrive at the point where you can sing the material without the recording or the instrument. This will really help your ears and sense of time in a big big way so slug on through the many frustrations it causes because the pay off is great, it's effectively an intense gym session for music. The next step is to learn it on your instrument, this is important because again you've removed the dependence of an instrument and focuses entirely on your ears and now you are working on being able to reproduce the sounds you hear in your head. Hurray! Again this process can be frustrating at times but the pay off is once again huge because you'll be able to realise ideas you are hearing in real time significantly quicker and be able to react to what other musicians are playing instantly. Basically you'll be well on your way to becoming a good musician and not just someone who plays an instrument.

I don't allow myself to slow down a recording. The reasoning being that music happens in real time. If you are on a gig or jamming and someone plays something you can't really stop and ask them to show you or slow it down. Granted you can't ask them to repeat the idea but by not slowing the recording down you are developing the ability to retain the sounds of a phrase or sequence in your head so if it crops up again you are in a better position to react to it. Slowing a recording down does improve accuracy and it is a process I'll use if I'm being paid to produce ultra accurate transcriptions but for my own sake and the sake of students I won't slow it down. I'd rather spend weeks and months slugging it out because the idea and sound will be so ingrained in my head the long term benefit is significantly better. Those are the transcriptions and information that have stayed with me longterm whereas the ones I've gotten from slowing down a recording I've retained a lot less of.

This is a super informative post and says a lot of things that I've heard top level players say when they talk about transcribing.

 

[frustum]

Do you have a set way of transcribing pieces/songs?

I use Amazing Slow Downer in two ways: one is to slow down sections so make it easier to hear, and second to pitch it up an octave. It is often easier to hear the notes that way. "Transcribe!" is another similar program that I'm sure would suit the same purpose.

Second, as I work through it, I enter it into a notation program, in my case Musescore. Musescore can render the score as audio, so I can play it simultaneously with the original track to see if any notes sound off. It works better when the track you are transcribing was recorded at a steady beat, but some 60s songs had a lot of tempo shift, making it hard to keep the playback in sync with the original track.

Be forewarned -- it is a lot of work at first learning transcription and the various bits of software. But like anything, the more you do it, the faster you get at it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I use Amazing Slow Downer in two ways: one is to slow down sections so make it easier to hear...

I know this is a popular thing, but most of the high level guys I follow say you should absolutely never slow things down to learn a transcription because you need to be able to use your ear in real time.. If something is too fast for you to hear, you should pick something that you can understand in real time and build your ear that way. Now when it comes to using repetition to get it into your playing, slowing things down is ok since you are building your technique. But for building your ear, don't slow stuff down.

I was watching a Twitch feed of Janek Gwizdala trying to explain that concept to people and a few of them really wanted to argue the point. He finished it off by basically saying most people want to lean fast stuff because it was cooler in their minds. But they probably won't get anything out of it, because they really were not ready for it.

I used to slow stuff down also, but I have recently changed to transcribing things that I love, and can also hear clearly. And transcribing is what I'm putting the vast majority of my practice time into, since I think I have a pretty good handle on scales, chords, pentatonics, etc. So I'm getting that stuff I practiced for years into my performance.

 

[Pings Bass]

I use logic pro to isolate things down to passages/measures as needed, match it with a keyboard, and write it down with pencil and paper. I use notation software for charting parts, but I'm still very much a pencil and paper guy for first draft composing/arranging/transcribing.

 

[Lownote38]

I know this is a popular thing, but most of the high level guys I follow say you should absolutely never slow things down to learn a transcription because you need to be able to use your ear in real time.. If something is too fast for you to hear, you should pick something that you can understand in real time and build your ear that way. Now when it comes to using repetition to get it into your playing, slowing things down is ok since you are building your technique. But for building your ear, don't slow stuff down.

I was watching a Twitch feed of Janek Gwizdala trying to explain that concept to people and a few of them really wanted to argue the point. He finished it off by basically saying most people want to lean fast stuff because it was cooler in their minds. But they probably won't get anything out of it, because they really were not ready for it.

I used to slow stuff down also, but I have recently changed to transcribing things that I love, and can also hear clearly. And transcribing is what I'm putting the vast majority of my practice time into, since I think I have a pretty good handle on scales, chords, pentatonics, etc. So I'm getting that stuff I practiced for years into my performance.

^^^^ This!!!

 

[MichelD]

How can you tell what the notes are you're hearing?

 

[Beff Juckley]

How can you tell what the notes are you're hearing?

When I go to learn anything, first I try and find the root of whatever part it is I'm learning. Then I listen for the chord changes and find a key. Then I work through the chord changes and try and find what's being played note for note. So I guess I know the note through studying scales. Hope that helps.

 

[Beff Juckley]

Now when it comes to using repetition to get it into your playing, slowing things down is ok since you are building your technique.

Does replaying a certain part of a piece over and over again qualify as slowing it down? For example I have learnt a lot of fills by isolating where they happen and looping it until I could work it out.

 

[BrotherMister]

Does replaying a certain part of a piece over and over again qualify as slowing it down? For example I have learnt a lot of fills by isolating where they happen and looping it until I could work it out.

It doesn’t quite fall into the same category. Looping stuff is fine because you are ingraining the sound of the line into your ears so you are hearing that sound at speed and retaining that chunk of information. When you slow it down you really begin to remove the sound of the whole idea in order to pick out the specific notes and move on.

As an exercise in discipline I tried to transcribe from vinyl and found myself really having to hold onto to larger chunks of information because the process of dropping the needle was such a pain so you end up working harder to hold onto all the stuff you’ve been mining off the record. I still mostly use a cd, pencil and paper for transcribing as well.

I meant to add! If you are transcribing a solo transcribe the bass line beneath it as well. That way you’ll really see what’s going on between the band. If you are really into it transcribe the entire band and see how it all relates.

 

[jj.833]

I'd like to add that there is no treshold of rightness. I believe you don't need to follow all the rules. Example: You perhaps shouldn't slow things down, but do slow them down if it helps you at the moment. Many bass parts are extremely hard to find out. These half muted 16th semi chromatic RNB runs... Avoid frustration. With time it gets easier, but do it only so hard or it might tip you to the easier (and not very musical) way of googling parts without doubts.

Begin with regard to your abilities. Software like Transcribe is a big help because of its operability. You can listen to a bar or a single note 100x if you need to, with one click. I tried @BrotherMister method of transcibing vinyl once out of neccessity, because there are records that are not on other medium. He's absolutely right. It's great, I found quite a lot about my abilities, but it works only when you are experienced enough to grasp it, or talented enough to grasp it, or have infinite time. Transcribe will help you make it much less painstakingly, without a need for the basically stupid questioning 'am I talented enough?'. You are, period. After some transcribing, you won't need Transcribe that much, but still it will save time.

When transcribing and then analyzing what you written, you will ocassionally come to a note that looks like a mistake. This is likely because you found a harmonic approach you don't yet understand. Look into theory books then, or ask a bandmate or talkbass. This is very good method to delve deeper into theory.

 

[Spin Doctor]

How can you tell what the notes are you're hearing?

Use your instrument. Piano, Bass, whatever

 

[Mushroo]

How can you tell what the notes are you're hearing?

I gave a more detailed post above. To briefly recap, the 4 things that helped me learn this skill were: lessons, reading, singing, and transcribing. Do you do these four things on a regular basis? (And if not, why not?)

Being able to "match pitch" is the most important musical skill in my opinion, the foundation of musicianship.

Can you sing "Happy Birthday"? That's a type of "matching pitch"! Can you tune your bass by ear? That's another type of "matching pitch!" You're probably already better at matching pitch than you realize. You just need to formalize the knowledge you already have. Your brain needs to catch up to what your ears have already known your entire life.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

If something is too fast for you to hear, you should pick something that you can understand in real time and build your ear that way.

If something is too far for you to see, you should find something else to look at, like a neighbors' house. Don't use a telescope.
I'm kidding!

To sum up.
Even if 5 billion people are telling me, "Don't you ever slow down a track", I will slow down the track I'm working on, if I need it.

It's just me. Nice to be back.