hi hive mind. any good (beginner/basic) trill drills to share (apart from what's in simandl 1)?
thanks!
j
thanks!
j
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Double Bass trills
- Thread starter ifg
- Start date
I do not remember the trill drills in Simandl 1, and can't reference it as my copy was "borrowed" several years ago and has yet to be returned. If you want to work on trills, my suggestion is to work on controlling the speed of your trills. Instead of the relatively common spasm-between-two-notes method, if you listen to recordings of soloists (not necessarily just bassists, but Joel Quarrington's trill at the end of the Bottesini Elegy is fantastic) you will find that trills can vary considerably in speed, and often speeding up or slowing down during part of a trill particularly on long trills adds a lot musically.
As an exercise, I would practice that by putting on the metronome and slowly moving between the two notes. Keep your left hand relatively quiet and close to the fingerboard as pulling the finger you aren't using way off out into space is a bad habit in general, but especially with trills, and make sure both notes are even sounding and both engaging and releasing your finger is a clean motion. Then speed it up. Start with quarter notes and then move to eighth notes, eighth note triplets, sixteenth notes, sixteenth note triplets etc. until you are playing quite quickly, and then slow it down again. Listen to what you are doing and see if you can hear both notes clearly, if the top or bottom note is more pronounced than the other, etc. This can also be a bow issue instead of a left hand issue, as we have a tendency to neglect the bow when we are working on something challenging with the left hand. Also don't think of it as lifting your finger and putting that same finger back down again with it being a motion isolated to just your hand, but more like turning a doorknob and rotating your hand/arm with your thumb as the pivot point. Trills are very similar to vibrato in that regard.
If you are using Simandl technique, then you will want to be comfortable with trilling between 1-4, 1-2, 2-4, and T-1, 2-3 in thumb position, so you can trill in any position for a tone or a semitone. 2-4 is going to be the hard one, but you should be able to do it so you don't have to use an even more awkward fingering to accommodate a trill you are incapable of. There will be situations where you will making fingering adjustments to make a trill more comfortable or to allow you to be more expressive, but if it is a quick trill in the middle of a passage, that option might not be as readily available to you.
Trills and vibrato are very closely related, so it would be beneficial to work on them both.
As an exercise, I would practice that by putting on the metronome and slowly moving between the two notes. Keep your left hand relatively quiet and close to the fingerboard as pulling the finger you aren't using way off out into space is a bad habit in general, but especially with trills, and make sure both notes are even sounding and both engaging and releasing your finger is a clean motion. Then speed it up. Start with quarter notes and then move to eighth notes, eighth note triplets, sixteenth notes, sixteenth note triplets etc. until you are playing quite quickly, and then slow it down again. Listen to what you are doing and see if you can hear both notes clearly, if the top or bottom note is more pronounced than the other, etc. This can also be a bow issue instead of a left hand issue, as we have a tendency to neglect the bow when we are working on something challenging with the left hand. Also don't think of it as lifting your finger and putting that same finger back down again with it being a motion isolated to just your hand, but more like turning a doorknob and rotating your hand/arm with your thumb as the pivot point. Trills are very similar to vibrato in that regard.
If you are using Simandl technique, then you will want to be comfortable with trilling between 1-4, 1-2, 2-4, and T-1, 2-3 in thumb position, so you can trill in any position for a tone or a semitone. 2-4 is going to be the hard one, but you should be able to do it so you don't have to use an even more awkward fingering to accommodate a trill you are incapable of. There will be situations where you will making fingering adjustments to make a trill more comfortable or to allow you to be more expressive, but if it is a quick trill in the middle of a passage, that option might not be as readily available to you.
Trills and vibrato are very closely related, so it would be beneficial to work on them both.
Hey Jonathan,
I subscribe to the concept Mike alluded to above, the vibrato-trill. The idea is to use the torque of your arm with a slightly stiffened upper digit (2 or 4) to trill onto, rather than trying to "strengthen" your finger muscles to execute longer or faster trills. When it is executed correctly, it feels exactly like a wide vibrato or a pivot. I try whenever possible to trill 1-2 instead of 2-4 as it's easiest to get your weight centered between those two fingers.
I subscribe to the concept Mike alluded to above, the vibrato-trill. The idea is to use the torque of your arm with a slightly stiffened upper digit (2 or 4) to trill onto, rather than trying to "strengthen" your finger muscles to execute longer or faster trills. When it is executed correctly, it feels exactly like a wide vibrato or a pivot. I try whenever possible to trill 1-2 instead of 2-4 as it's easiest to get your weight centered between those two fingers.
Trills are the most basic finger exercise, putting them down and picking them up. If you want to learn to execute the "vibrato trill" that's fine but IMO daily practice of trills should aim for finger independence (keep the hand and wrist still), strength and speed. I have beginners start on them as soon as they know two adjacent notes. There a million ways to practice them. Just be sure to play them in all position, on all strings.
I'm a fan of this "vibrato trill" because it really puts weight behind the fingers.
Sometimes a very fast trill in thumb postition has to be just the fingers. On a fast trill, it may help to finger the higher note a hair sharper since you aren't really pressing the string down all the way.
It might be good to practice both ways for a bit - start slow and work to keep everything even and rhythmic. Keep some attention to your intonation too - you're practicing hand shape and movement and that applies to all of your playing, not just trills!
Bonus - if you do "vibrato trills", it will definitely help your vibrato.
As to specific exercises, I do some exercises from Diana Gannett-
She writes them on the D string... 0=D, 1=E, 2=F, 4=F#.
Repeat everything 4x a bar.
16th notes:
0101, 0202, 0404, 1414, 1212, 2424
0141, 0121, 0242, 1242
6tuplet 16ths:
012421, 021421, 412012, 124120, 210214
32nds:
01240124, 42104210, 02140214, 41204120
She recommends to practice these for finger independence and to only move the fingers.
I hope this is helpful.
Sometimes a very fast trill in thumb postition has to be just the fingers. On a fast trill, it may help to finger the higher note a hair sharper since you aren't really pressing the string down all the way.
It might be good to practice both ways for a bit - start slow and work to keep everything even and rhythmic. Keep some attention to your intonation too - you're practicing hand shape and movement and that applies to all of your playing, not just trills!
Bonus - if you do "vibrato trills", it will definitely help your vibrato.
As to specific exercises, I do some exercises from Diana Gannett-
She writes them on the D string... 0=D, 1=E, 2=F, 4=F#.
Repeat everything 4x a bar.
16th notes:
0101, 0202, 0404, 1414, 1212, 2424
0141, 0121, 0242, 1242
6tuplet 16ths:
012421, 021421, 412012, 124120, 210214
32nds:
01240124, 42104210, 02140214, 41204120
She recommends to practice these for finger independence and to only move the fingers.
I hope this is helpful.
Last edited:
Can someone describe the similarities between a trill and vibrato in movement? This term is new to me and no teacher ever mentioned it to me.....
My vibrato comes from my arm, and very rarely is it just in the fingers. My finger only vibrato is usually very fast and narrow which does have occasional applications, but is used very sparingly. The vibrato that I initiate with my arm can be a variety of speeds and widths as necessary, which gives me a lot more colour options to work with. The finger I am vibrating on can roll back so it is almost flat against the fingerboard and my finger nail is pointing down the string, or forward slightly farther than perpendicular to the board. Trills can be played using an extension/exaggeration of that movement as well.
To do a semitone trill between your first and middle finger, put your first finger down on the string and vibrate. Instead of keeping your other fingers out of the way so you have as much space for vibrating as possible, when you roll your first finger forward, you engage your middle finger. You then roll your first finger back again, which lifts the second finger. Instead of actively lifting and replacing your middle finger, you maintain the same hand shape and "vibrate" on your first finger so the motion does the work for you. This gives you the same variety of speeds as your vibrato, because you are essentially using the same motion.
To do a semitone trill between your first and middle finger, put your first finger down on the string and vibrate. Instead of keeping your other fingers out of the way so you have as much space for vibrating as possible, when you roll your first finger forward, you engage your middle finger. You then roll your first finger back again, which lifts the second finger. Instead of actively lifting and replacing your middle finger, you maintain the same hand shape and "vibrate" on your first finger so the motion does the work for you. This gives you the same variety of speeds as your vibrato, because you are essentially using the same motion.
For myself I can alternate between the approaches of neilG and MikeCanada above. I prefer to use 1 - 2 for a 1/2 tone like NeilG and the "vibrato" trill for 1 4 like Mike. I confess to fudging trills in orchestra, copying cello in chamber music and one - bass situations like oratorios and taking much more care in solos. Yes, you need to control speed, even-ness and clarity of articulation as Mike and Neil suggest above
There are two other parts to executing trills. One is getting into them and the other is getting out. The first is related to the period or style of the music. In Baroque or Classical Pieces the trill often starts with the upper of the two notes, giving it a slight stress, eg 21212121212......or 414141414..... Later music is probably just 121212 and 14141
The second is more tricky IMO and is where I am least secure. The following works for me. If the trill is simple and in the middle of a moving passage the exit still has to be neat. If the trill is at the end of a passage and is the resolution of a cadence it probably has or needs an extra note(s) called an afterbeat, eg FEFEFEFEFE....DEF. The last 3 notes are slurred and articulated clearly to underline the cadence and may be separated slightly from the main trill notes.
Fingering the afterbeats can be tricky. Resolving trills when using ! - 2 - 4 fingering is worth practicing a number of ways, eg for an Fsharp-to-G trill that resolves onto G the fingers could be 1-2 or 2-4 and the E of the afterbeat could be either 1 on the D or 4 on the A String. This may/may not employ a pivot or temporary extension of the hand.
With my 1-2-3-4 fingering I would choose 1-3-4 on the D string or 4-1-2 from A string to d string. I will never use 3-4 to trill - this just won't work.
Best wishes. DP
There are two other parts to executing trills. One is getting into them and the other is getting out. The first is related to the period or style of the music. In Baroque or Classical Pieces the trill often starts with the upper of the two notes, giving it a slight stress, eg 21212121212......or 414141414..... Later music is probably just 121212 and 14141
The second is more tricky IMO and is where I am least secure. The following works for me. If the trill is simple and in the middle of a moving passage the exit still has to be neat. If the trill is at the end of a passage and is the resolution of a cadence it probably has or needs an extra note(s) called an afterbeat, eg FEFEFEFEFE....DEF. The last 3 notes are slurred and articulated clearly to underline the cadence and may be separated slightly from the main trill notes.
Fingering the afterbeats can be tricky. Resolving trills when using ! - 2 - 4 fingering is worth practicing a number of ways, eg for an Fsharp-to-G trill that resolves onto G the fingers could be 1-2 or 2-4 and the E of the afterbeat could be either 1 on the D or 4 on the A String. This may/may not employ a pivot or temporary extension of the hand.
With my 1-2-3-4 fingering I would choose 1-3-4 on the D string or 4-1-2 from A string to d string. I will never use 3-4 to trill - this just won't work.
Best wishes. DP
