Triplets

[Fergie Fulton]

No, no, no, no. There are some terms, like "eighth-notes" and "quavers," that mean the same thing and in an international forum like this, you can use either one and have a reasonable chance of being understood. If you use the word "crotchet" instead of "quarter-note," someone in the United States who reads your post and doesn't recognize the word can look it up and find out exactly what you mean. There is nothing wrong with using the word "crotchet."

However, as I said above, the terms "tie," "beam," and "bracket" are not interchangeable. You keep using the word "tie" when you really mean either "bracket" or "beam," and this *is* wrong and has led to a great deal of confusion in this thread.

Brackets and beams both can be used to denote tuplets. The general rule is that for unbeamed notes (e.g., quarter notes/crotchets) you denote a tuplet with a bracket. The first measure of the first example in post 55 demonstrates this.

For notes that are already beamed, however, you can omit the bracket and designate the tuplet by putting a number (the number 3 in the case of a triplet) over or under the beam. The second and third measures of the example in post 55 demonstrates this.

A "tie," on the other hand, connects the heads of two notes of the same pitch, indicating that they are to be played as a single note with a duration equal to the sum of the individual notes' note values.

So these are very, very different concepts. A tie does not change the duration of a note; a tuplet bracket or a beam with a tuplet designation does change the duration of the note.

Trust me on the use of terms, math divisions over names is a big problem for some players in the States, its there way or the highway.
Even though i'm British based blues player i have played with a lot of American artists, here and abroad, as well as the USA so i am talking first hand experience here.

Once again sorry for the mix up just trying to find an acceptable term to use, for the record i have used and seen a slur used with either 3 or 5 inside it in the same context is that exceptable?

 

[Jake of Bass]

Once again sorry for the mix up just trying to find an acceptable term to use, for the record i have used and seen a slur used with either 3 or 5 inside it in the same context is that exceptable?

Those kinds of groupings that look like either a tie or a slur is used to indicate phrasing.

 

[Febs]

Once again sorry for the mix up just trying to find an acceptable term to use, for the record i have used and seen a slur used with either 3 or 5 inside it in the same context is that exceptable?

I have no doubt that you have used and seen a mark that resembles a slur used as a triplet bracket. But the fact remains that in that context, the mark you are referring to is functioning as a "bracket," and not a "slur." If the writer wanted the notes in a triplet slurred, he would need to use both a triplet bracket and a slur, like in the attached example.

As for the acceptable terms to use, I honestly don't know how I can make it any more clear for you.

 

[onlyclave]

I have no doubt that you have used and seen a mark that resembles a slur used as a triplet bracket. But the fact remains that in that context, the mark you are referring to is functioning as a "bracket," and not a "slur." If the writer wanted the notes in a triplet slurred, he would need to use both a triplet bracket and a slur, like in the attached example.

As for the acceptable terms to use, I honestly don't know how I can make it any more clear for you.

That is perfectly readable and understandable. The slurs are just showing phrasing information, not articulation and the triplets are very clear.

 

[Febs]

That is perfectly readable and understandable. The slurs are just showing phrasing information, not articulation and the triplets are very clear.

I replaced the original example with one from a chart by the same composer that better illustrates my point. I don't want to argue about how the slur should be interpreted (we've drifted far enough from the topic as it is). My only point is that even though the triplet bracket and the slur look the same, they are serving different functions and using the correct terms can avoid the type of confusion we saw in this thread.

Though this example does sort of bring the thread full circle, because aside from starting on beat 1 instead of beat 3, the figure in measure 106 of the example is the exact figure the original poster asked about.

 

[Erick Lam]

Triplets are a division of a quarter note into 3 parts.

I know what you oand others mean but that's incorrect, or rather imcomplete.

A triplet is when you have three rythm figures when there should be two of the same figure.

So to use your exemple, it isn't a quarter note divided in three but 3 eight notes in the space of two. This definition allows extrapolation to any rythmic figure. 8th notes in 12/8 are not triplets.

EDIT: just saw Onlyclave has the good answer. Sorry!

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I have no doubt that you have used and seen a mark that resembles a slur used as a triplet bracket. But the fact remains that in that context, the mark you are referring to is functioning as a "bracket," and not a "slur." If the writer wanted the notes in a triplet slurred, he would need to use both a triplet bracket and a slur, like in the attached example.

As for the acceptable terms to use, I honestly don't know how I can make it any more clear for you.

Its all the same thing mate, and very clear to me and thats what i'm saying LOL. There are many ways used to indicate the triplet and the name given to how you put them in parenthasis ( the correct terminology since it seems so important) whether it is a bracket, tie, beam, and in the case of the slur the 3 would would be inside it for just a triplet or outside it for a triplet slur. All i have seen, questioned, and used, its just a personal thing, and also regional thing that varies around the world. I let things slid and give the benifit of the doubt to others, if i was ridged in my views....i would not work, and since it has served me well for over 35 years i reckon i must be doing something right.


As different countries have different languages, so variations in theory notation exist, which here in Europe, as i meet so many cultures, open you up to a palate of colour, or is that color if you spell check this in the USA?

 

[headonastick]

I'm also from the UK, and I can assure you that a tie, a beam, and a bracket are not the same thing. Are you saying that the terminology is interchangeable between all three notations, or are you saying that they are all the same notation? You seem to be suggesting that a tie, a beam, and a bracket all perform the same function. Claiming that the terms are interchangeable is like me claiming that "gold" and "bungee" are synonymous –*it's not a matter of my opinion, it's just wrong.

 

[Pacman]

Why would you read them as quarter note triplets rather than eighth note triplets? Each triplet has the duration of three eighth notes (one quarter note and one eighth note) played in the space of two eighth notes.

Argh! That's what I get for trying to work and TB at the same time .....my bad.


Edit: Offending post removed for clarity's sake....

 

[Febs]

You can join me in the "people who have had brain freezes in this thread" club.

 

[onlyclave]

We wouldn't have the argument if we all used tab.

/s

 

[Fergie Fulton]

We wouldn't have the argument if we all used tab.

/s

Now that has me laughing so hard i have hurt myself, as it gives a great thumbs to to tab over notation LOL. More fuel on the fire i fear LOL. I got to go to the doctors now...seriously...

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I'm also from the UK, and I can assure you that a tie, a beam, and a bracket are not the same thing. Are you saying that the terminology is interchangeable between all three notations, or are you saying that they are all the same notation? You seem to be suggesting that a tie, a beam, and a bracket all perform the same function. Claiming that the terms are interchangeable is like me claiming that "gold" and "bungee" are synonymous –*it's not a matter of my opinion, it's just wrong.

Of course they are different in their own rights, but when a numbers such as 3 is put in it's context, it shows that all under, or within it are to be considered the triplet.
And in saying that if someone i just meet or did not know that well was using incorrect terminology i for one would not correct him, eg;
if i was in Burns Howf in the 70's (as your from Glasgow) and a punter talking to me was using incorrect terminology, i would not correct him if i new what he ment and would use the term back if need be.