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Trouble cutting through (pf 500)
- Thread starter southpaw723
- Start date
Many guitarists don't understand the difference between bedroom tone and playing-in-a-band tone. They want a gut punching tone with lots of bottom, and don't realize this leaves no sonic territory for the bass.
A myth that has proven wrong many times. Plus, bi-amping is not an option without buying more gear.
Years ago, I ran a 4x10 and 2X15 without bi-amping. Just plug & play. Never had a problem competing against two Marshall stacks and double bass drummer. My amp was a Peavey Mark VI (black & white face), 400 watts at 2 ohms, 250 at 4 ohms.
No one is supposed to CUT through the mix. If so, it would be a BAD mix. IF you hear your bass clearly while on stage, you are probably too loud and too muddy. You need to borrow a wireless to hear your tone in the mix from out front during practice to hear the difference. Once you get the diff, it's easy to dial in, just know it won't be your fave tone! Unless you like grindy bass lines. Basically flat on the bass ctl flat on the trebs and 2 to 3 o'clock on the lower and upper mid ctls.
You use eq and wireless to find your sonic space, and once dialed in, it is YOUR SPACE! You will fit nicely into the mix and still be heard/felt..
IMO of course.
You use eq and wireless to find your sonic space, and once dialed in, it is YOUR SPACE! You will fit nicely into the mix and still be heard/felt..
IMO of course.
A piece of advice I got years ago that helped me. If you don't like your tone you can't fix it by adding to it. Boosting treble, mids, bass, distortion, etc won't make a bad tone better. Start by subtracting. Often the reason bass lacks clarity is because there's too much mud, which usually resides in the lower end of the tonal spectrum. I cleaned up my live sound, and that of the whole band, considerably by cutting the bass and low mids (I also have the PF 500). Those CS 60's pups you have are fantastic, but Jazz basses are somewhat scooped sounding by design. So if you use roundwounds, nickel would be preferrable to steels, as steels are also somewhat inherently scooped sounding. Flats, believe it or not, are easier to hear in a band mix, I think due to having less harmonic overtones, which can mask the fundamental note considerably. All those grindy harmonics sound great by yourself in your bedroom, but not so much in the presence of guitars and cymbals. Whoever said guitarist may have too many lows dialed in are also on to something. Guitarists do the same thing we do; sculpt their tone alone, in their bedrooms with no band present. We add highs and harmonics to get a fuller sound, they add bass. If the guitars sound bass heavy to you, talk to your band mates about sonic space, and how to eq yourselves as a group instead of a collection of individuals. You'll be amazed at the clarity of all the instruments, and how much tighter you'll sound as a unit without that swirling dirge of noise you hear when everyone plays with "bedroom tone". These are just some of my observations, hope you find something useful here.
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^^ FWIW - My Jazz, a 2012 MIA has the CS60s as well and I use a PF800 into a Hartke 4.5XL. I do not have any issues "cutting".
Have you had the pickup heights checked on the guitar?
Have you had the pickup heights checked on the guitar?
It is not nonsense to say what we hear in the crowd is different than what YOU hear on stage. Most bassists who don't understand this are inevitably too loud and too muddy. It's not the equipment, it's how bass frequencies develop. They take much longer to develop fully than the distance you are standing from the speaker.
2 10HE is just a 200w cab with 119db. I used a 2 10 with delta 10s 350w each, 700w total, on top of a 800w Kappa 15LF or 900w Sigma 18. With that, 350 watts was more than enough. Now the Markbass cabs I use are the 400w expensive ones, never the 200w introductory ones. (I was playing with a Marshal amped guitarist who was trying to have as much low end as he could, no effects, just the tubes. It was ok for a while then I got tired of competing for space)
sorry I didn't mean the portaflex version, the no frills light weight rectangle. 2 portaflex is better due to volume. Is it enough speaker though? I think you need more, double that.
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I replaced a GK1001RB with a PF-500. I built two cabinets, a non-fEarful 12/6/1 and 12 sub, crossed over at 800hZ and 3k. The 12's are 375 watt MCM cheap drivers. They are fantastic. The mid an Eminence and horn (barely turned up) is a ubiquitous Foster/Fostex.
My cabinets are not that efficient...likely around 92dB, so I crank my Pf-500 at times. But I have never had trouble cutting through anything. Of all the rigs I've used since 1969, THIS is my favorite.
Before building my cabinet, I used a variety of 15's and smaller speakers with crossovers. I have found the Ampeg to sound better through different bass cabs than my GK, which sounded good through some, and not so good through other.
The PF-500 does seem to lack a little of the power the GK had, while on paper they should be really close...500watts VS the 540 watts of the 1st edition GK. The Ampeg has that bit of grind that the GK didn't, but I like it.
My band did not like the PF-500 at first, compared to the GK or rack rig I used when the GK quit. I had the same experience with the band in the 70's when I switched to an SVT...they wanted me to go back to my old head.
I too am puzzled by the OP's problems. I use a Line 6 Variax 5 string, and switch models according to the song, and regardless of the model used (I usually use the Danelectro Longhorn model) I cut through fine. I run the EQ rather flat, with modest boosts (and sometimes a cut) to match the room. Some rooms I boost the 3 postition in the mids a little, and some 4 instead.
I do love vertical stacking. It offers more even coverage of both stage and room and I can hear myself well.
I used a 4X10 a few times (I have three) and filled the room well, but would have preferred two stacked 2X10's.
I do use the compression. I love it on this head, and usually start with it (after setting the gain) around 12-1 o'clock. As the night progresses, instead of turning up, I just back off the compression, which raises the volume and brings back dynamics.
My cabinets are not that efficient...likely around 92dB, so I crank my Pf-500 at times. But I have never had trouble cutting through anything. Of all the rigs I've used since 1969, THIS is my favorite.
Before building my cabinet, I used a variety of 15's and smaller speakers with crossovers. I have found the Ampeg to sound better through different bass cabs than my GK, which sounded good through some, and not so good through other.
The PF-500 does seem to lack a little of the power the GK had, while on paper they should be really close...500watts VS the 540 watts of the 1st edition GK. The Ampeg has that bit of grind that the GK didn't, but I like it.
My band did not like the PF-500 at first, compared to the GK or rack rig I used when the GK quit. I had the same experience with the band in the 70's when I switched to an SVT...they wanted me to go back to my old head.
I too am puzzled by the OP's problems. I use a Line 6 Variax 5 string, and switch models according to the song, and regardless of the model used (I usually use the Danelectro Longhorn model) I cut through fine. I run the EQ rather flat, with modest boosts (and sometimes a cut) to match the room. Some rooms I boost the 3 postition in the mids a little, and some 4 instead.
I do love vertical stacking. It offers more even coverage of both stage and room and I can hear myself well.
I used a 4X10 a few times (I have three) and filled the room well, but would have preferred two stacked 2X10's.
I do use the compression. I love it on this head, and usually start with it (after setting the gain) around 12-1 o'clock. As the night progresses, instead of turning up, I just back off the compression, which raises the volume and brings back dynamics.
Your mid-range select is set on 3 which is 800Hz and that is not where the growl lives. Try selecting #1 for your mid-range (220Hz), which is the low-mids, drop the mid-boost to about 2 o'clock, and strike the strings over the bridge pickup of your Jazz. You can also try it with frequency select on #2 which is 450Hz, but #1 should give you a good growl that you can hear through the mix.
why do you say that? Please expand. By saying it is an epic falsehood, you are telling us that low frequencies have less wavelength than high frequencies..
PS - there is math involved.
PS - there is math involved.
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