Trouble hearing the B and C notes

[oldrocker]

We have a semi regular gig at a medium sized bar with a challenging set up environment.

The drums and bass are in an alcove about 6 x 6, maybe just slight larger, but it just fits the drum kit and my bass rig. Bass rig is up against the back wall with a another wall along the left side. The rest of the band 2 guitars keys and singer sets up just in front and a little to side of us.

Looks like this - note it's a different bass and a different head in this pic:

For the latest show I played a Fender Jazz 4 through a Mesa Walkabout into 2 1x12 Mesa Powerhouse cabs. There was plenty of power and i had no trouble hearing myself except for the B and C notes.

I haven't heard the recordings yet so I don't know how it carried into the house but the B and C either on the A string 2nd and 3rd frets or the E string was noticeably lower in volume than all the other notes.

Is there any EQ I could do to even this out. This is how I had the Walkabout set up:

 

[lz4005]

Before you start EQing, move your cabs. Being tucked into the corner like that is likely the cause of the problem.

That said, you could, in theory, use a very narrow boost at about 60 to 65hz with a good single band fully parametric EQ to bring out those two notes. You'd have to sweep it in the room and carefully adjust the Q during sound check to get it to do what you want.

Depending on how bad the room's frequency cancellation is, that could clear it up completely, or it might not make an audible difference.

 

[oldrocker]

Before you start EQing, move your cabs. Being tucked into the corner like that is likely the cause of the problem.

That said, you could, in theory, use a very narrow boost at about 60 to 65hz with a good single band fully parametric EQ to bring out those two notes. You'd have to sweep it in the room and carefully adjust the Q during sound check to get it to do what you want.

Depending on how bad the room's frequency cancellation is, that could clear it up completely, or it might not make an audible difference.

Thanks, but not the low B as on a 5 string but the lowest B on a 4 string. 2 fret A string or 7th fret E string.

 

[oldrocker]

Before you start EQing, move your cabs. Being tucked into the corner like that is likely the cause of the problem.

That said, you could, in theory, use a very narrow boost at about 60 to 65hz with a good single band fully parametric EQ to bring out those two notes. You'd have to sweep it in the room and carefully adjust the Q during sound check to get it to do what you want.

Depending on how bad the room's frequency cancellation is, that could clear it up completely, or it might not make an audible difference.

Thanks, but I can't move the cabs. I'm stuck in that corner - there is really no where else for me to go.

Looks like this in there :

 

[rodl2005]

Still, it's likely the position that your cab is in that's the culprit. Even moving it a few inches in either direction can help.
The other thing I'd suggest is to raise the cabs up on a crate or something similar. Or point em up at your ears. The sound will still get out into the room

 

[Bboopbennie]

Sound is a pressure wave. A counter pressure wave ( guitar / drums ), can cancel or attenuate your notes. Standing in a tight setup like I see, might just be that. All you can do is adjust the pickups for balanced tone
loudness. Adding some mid range on the EQ can help cut thru the mix, but overall tone can suffer. A compression
pedal adjusted well, or add some dirt.. can give you some extra horse power. When I played a Acoustic 360 with
a 18 inch driver, I never had that problem?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Your alcove looks like it could be 3/4 of a wavelength high and 1/4 above your head. If you put the cabs up on a stand you might get less of a perfect storm. A dropout EQ'd up is a bigger dropout.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, it's boundary cancellation. Not much you can do if you can't move.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Glass and 90 degree corners everywhere. Reflections are going to be in abundance.

 

[jbrew73]

Any chance there is a dead spot on that bass? You said you played a jazz what about the p bass?

 

[Slevage]

Thanks, but I can't move the cabs. I'm stuck in that corner - there is really no where else for me to go.

Looks like this in there :

View attachment 3520929

If you’re stuck there, raise your cabinet to eat level, not just waist level.
Make sure it’s good fore you.
Don’t worry about the sound out front— the audience won’t care.
Hope you get gigs that give the band the space they deserve, but in my 45 years of gigging, that happens about 25% of the time.

 

[dbase]

10 to 1 the bass is rattling the hell out of the stalls in the ladies room but you cant hear it on stage. I hate when my notes go flat. I notice a keyboard in the picture. make sure the keyboard player is not using his left hand and cancelling you out.

 

[jnewmark]

I do a similar gig , stuck in a alcove window space with the drummer. I typically bring a 115 and raise it on a tilted back amp stand. Just turning the rig slightly towards me made a difference in how well I could hear. Maybe moving a little left or right, or turning the rig slightly, while in place, might be the trick.

 

[MattZilla]

Phase cancellation.

Tilt it at your face.

Audience will enjoy you playing at your best.

 

[lz4005]

Thanks, but not the low B as on a 5 string but the lowest B on a 4 string. 2 fret A string or 7th fret E string.

I got that. Which is why I said 60Hz not 30Hz.

 

[Boundary Effect]

Quite probably acoustic cancellation. One can minimize this through speaker placement and/or listening position, but you cannot fix it with equalization. B1(2) is 62Hz(124Hz) or 18'(9') in length and C1(2) is 65Hz (131Hz) or 14.3'(9'). I've included the 2nd harmonic because a substantial null there will also be noticeable as overall lack of loudness. The true null is somewhere between those pitches but has a sufficiently wide Q to effect both It's likely there are physical dimensions in that cubby or elsewhere that are 1/2 of those wavelengths.

 

[micguy]

Almost certainly a standing wave problem - our instruments make sound waves with wavelengths (what usually the most important thing in acoustics) that are many feet in length - your 62 and 65 Hz notes propagate wavelengths in the neighborhood of 18 feet. If you've got a ceiling that's half that, or the floor to ceiling or wall dimensions are other small ratio fractions or multiples of that wavelength, you'll get standing waves - meaning where you stand will affect how much of that you'll hear. EQ does not fix these things - if you pump in more power to the point where you hear that note at your spot OK, you'll be overwhelming people at other positions with power.

Solutions: If you get drunk and fall to the floor, you'll probably get a more even response down there, as your ears will be at a boundary. OK, while that advice is scientifically sound, you might want to consider other alternatives that don't destroy your ability to play or stage presence:

Still, it's likely the position that your cab is in that's the culprit. Even moving it a few inches in either direction can help.

Relatively good advice, I'll just add you probably need to move things more than a few inches - try moving things a foot or two up, down, left, right, forward or back.

 

[oldrocker]

Thanks all. I got to listen to the recordings from the show. Recorder is set out in the audience, not direct from the board or from the stage so it's basically getting the sound in the room.

The recordings also show that the B and C is dropping out, so it's not just on the stage or to my ears.

I will try moving the cabs slightly and elevating them at the next show there.

 

[oldrocker]

Quite probably acoustic cancellation. One can minimize this through speaker placement and/or listening position, but you cannot fix it with equalization. B1(2) is 62Hz(124Hz) or 18'(9') in length and C1(2) is 65Hz (131Hz) or 14.3'(9'). I've included the 2nd harmonic because a substantial null there will also be noticeable as overall lack of loudness. The true null is somewhere between those pitches but has a sufficiently wide Q to effect both It's likely there are physical dimensions in that cubby or elsewhere that are 1/2 of those wavelengths.

Thank you, It's very possible the alcove has a 9' dimension in one or more of the directions.

 

[oldrocker]

Any chance there is a dead spot on that bass? You said you played a jazz what about the p bass?

I don't think there is a dead spot on the B and C notes. Last night at home I played the same bass through the same set up. All notes loud and clear.