TRUE BYPASS AND BUFFERED BYPASS IN BASS PEDALS

[Karun Reuel Dayal]

I've been looking up over the internet about the buffered and true bypass pedals and almost all explanations are with respect to guitars and how the highs can be maintained with buffered pedals.

Bass doesn't really operate in that region of the spectrum.

Where does bass guitar stand as far as tone wrt to buffered and tbp pedals are concerned?

 

[Darkglass]

Except bass does operate in those regions, so I'd say those articles are still quite relevant for us low end soldiers.

The signal of your bass is not a pure sine wave. It's actually a group of signals.

When you increase the mid control on your EQ you selectively amplify the portion of signals in that range off your instrument's.

All the crisp, and definition of your instrument can be relatively high up there (around 3kHz and above).
If the conditions are bad enough (mismatched impedances, long cable runs) a buffer can be the difference between the crisp and definition of having fresh strings and month old!

Also, if you have an active bass that signal is already being buffered. Adding more won't hurt but it shouldn't particularly help under most circumstances.

 

[Karun Reuel Dayal]

Thanks for the reply!
I forgot to mention that I use an active bass and your point about that was really helpful.
So a buffered or tbp pedal in my signal chain will not make a significant difference. Is that right?

 

[Tyand]

Well five or more buffered pedals will definetly alter your sound. For us active bass players i know no reason not to go all tb pedals if u dobt get pops in switching on and off

 

[Darkglass]

Thanks for the reply!
I forgot to mention that I use an active bass and your point about that was really helpful.
So a buffered or tbp pedal in my signal chain will not make a significant difference. Is that right?

You're most welcome. If it's a well designed buffer system there shouldn't be any difference sound-wise.

Well five or more buffered pedals will definetly alter your sound. For us active bass players i know no reason not to go all tb pedals if u dobt get pops in switching on and off

Yeah, pops is only one issue though. I think the main problem is that hard wired, mechanical bypass systems are not only more prone to pops but are usually a lot less reliable and smooth: most 3PDT switches used will present issues after a few months or years of moderate use (some last longer than others).
Relays are usually more reliable but also have limited lifetime (and can be even more prone to clacks than their mechanically controlled counter part).
But like with any mechanical device, they wear off eventually, the key matter is when.

 

[Darkglass]

I remember Andrew wrote a great article about it on the Tech21 site!

 

[boomertech]

Well five or more buffered pedals will definetly alter your sound. For us active bass players i know no reason not to go all tb pedals if u dobt get pops in switching on and off

What you hear when stacking a bunch of buffered pedals is the accumulation of non-linearity (signal distortion). Most of the buffered-bypass pedals use a single transistor buffer/driver at the beginning and end of the circuit. All transistors have an operating function curve that the AC signal follows. The designer of the single transistor amplifier buffer usually finds an operating point on the transistors curve that yields the least amount of signal distortion, but since this is a curve there will always be some signal degradation. Like Doug said above, if the buffers were designed to be linear and full spectrum there would be zero impact on the audio signal.

I believe that if manufacturers started using linear, HI-FI quality bypass buffers from the very beginning there wouldn’t be much of a TBP vs buffered debate today. I also think that it is wrong to lump all buffered bypass pedals into the “yucky” column. Several builders today are making great linear buffer systems where if you were to stack a bunch of them, you wouldn’t hear a difference when compared with a piece of wire.

You're most welcome. If it's a well designed buffer system there shouldn't be any difference sound-wise.



Yeah, pops is only one issue though. I think the main problem is that hard wired, mechanical bypass systems are not only more prone to pops but are usually a lot less reliable and smooth: most 3PDT switches used will present issues after a few months or years of moderate use (some last longer than others).
Relays are usually more reliable but also have limited lifetime (and can be even more prone to clacks than their mechanically controlled counter part).
But like with any mechanical device, they wear off eventually, the key matter is when.

It is refreshing to see someone who has used relay bypass give an honest statement/evaluation about them.

-Frank

 

[Darkglass]

Yeah, actually a decent buffer with a passive bass will only sound as if you were using a 4 inch cable.

 

[Driven Crane]

What can you say about bypass in Wet Neunaber Stereo Reverb?

 

[friendlybass]

If you have two pedals you love but their output/input impedances dont match up you'll lose a butt ton of tone. Like a metric butt ton. Put a buffer between and it helps them impedances match up and then you sound much mo betta

 

[boomertech]

What can you say about bypass in Wet Neunaber Stereo Reverb?

If your question was directed towards me, then I know nothing about the circuit in this pedal. But it appears that you can get a TBP version if desired.

-Frank

 

[boomertech]

Here is an older thread that a TB member did where he plotted the FFT's of active bypass pedals:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/frequency-analysis-pedal-bypass-edition.675743/

-Frank

 

[Driven Crane]

Thanks. But I already have non tbp version.

 

[SGT. BAKER]

Here is an older thread that a TB member did where he plotted the FFT's of active bypass pedals:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/frequency-analysis-pedal-bypass-edition.675743/

-Frank

There´s a lot of good info in this thread.

 

[Unemploid]

does the 105q bass wah have a decent buffer? i have no complaints with my tone. i try the pedal with a 50 inch cable and the highs were their. only thing i've notice is at low volumes it sounds like the wah is sucking my tone, but at higher volumes it's more than fine.

 

[Alien8]

Thanks for the good link boomertech!

I spent a long time getting my recorded guitar tone right, and it paid off in live settings. The most important part for me was stacking pedals correctly so that the tone I needed came through. For example, the OCD had to be hit directly with the guitar or it didn't quite make the sound I wanted. Anything before it was true bypassed to ensure that this happened. The same held true for other pedals going into the pre amp of a tube combo. The pedals I had in the Fx loop were also carefully selected so the tone wasn't degraded, or true bypassed if I really wanted the effect.

When I switched to bass, I found I was able to be less picky, as the changes from *most* buffers didn't cause unwanted changes. In fact some buffers (Moog LPF) for example were completely welcome when they were avoided on guitar. All this said, it comes down to what pleases my ear, and tone is a huge part of what I enjoy.

Further to all of this, what I have learned is that you can have a 25 pedal long system, play though it and make sound. If you spend time understanding how the pedals react to each other, you find combinations that make YOU come through. It's not magic, but it sure is nice to connect to and feel what you are putting into the sound, rather than have a pedal sterilize that out of it - even in a 2 pedal chain. BTW - the YOU part is the magic.

As long as you are getting what you want at the speakers, bypass method doesn't matter. True bypass is one way to help to get there, but not "the" solution. Good buffers should not take away, but should help when something else is taking away.

 

[Enzo88]

Sorry to pop up an old thread but here we go, i was wondering what kind of buffer is installed on a new Boss DD-3 unit. I'm using a Pbass with 2 other TB pedals. Nothing important, just curious on how the DD-3 affects the signal in the chain. Also do you think it would make any difference (signal processing wise) if it is put at the top of the chain contrary to being at the end of it?