haha let me grab my woodwinds and I can make all sorts of strange animal noises from strangling waterfowl to the deep forest floor snoring of an Ent sleeping (that would be my Contra bassoon).
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Trumpets! New or used?
- Thread starter Yonni
- Start date
-
- Tags
- brass trumpet
I agree with @BassBrass, Carol Brass is the way to go for new instruments. I had a Phaeton trumpet made by them and it was phenomenal.
These days, I only dabble, so I went back to what works, is good, and is an amazing value for the money: the Olds Ambassador.
For used, Olds instruments are incredible for the money. Ambassador, Ultra Sonic and Specials can be had for your budget. Stretch it a bit and you can get a Recording, Super, or Super Recording.
I know a few pros that play on the Ambassador models. These were allegedly beginner models in the day, but the Mendez model was based on the Ambassador, and that was a pro model.
I grew up playing the Ambassador and I liked that it was a "balanced model." The valve block is in the middle of the horn, not set back towards the receiver like a Bach 180 for example. There are a few companies out there that make balanced horns still. I believe Carol Brass has a balanced model.
My old Olds:
These days, I only dabble, so I went back to what works, is good, and is an amazing value for the money: the Olds Ambassador.
For used, Olds instruments are incredible for the money. Ambassador, Ultra Sonic and Specials can be had for your budget. Stretch it a bit and you can get a Recording, Super, or Super Recording.
I know a few pros that play on the Ambassador models. These were allegedly beginner models in the day, but the Mendez model was based on the Ambassador, and that was a pro model.
I grew up playing the Ambassador and I liked that it was a "balanced model." The valve block is in the middle of the horn, not set back towards the receiver like a Bach 180 for example. There are a few companies out there that make balanced horns still. I believe Carol Brass has a balanced model.
My old Olds:
Attachments
Last edited:
I'm an olds devotee, I have and have photographed photoshoped my Olds Super cornet, have the only mouthpiece that fits it, I played a Studio cornet in a stage pit band (sold) and I could imagine searching for a perfect Mendez or Super or Studio or Super Recording trumpet, reconditioned of course, or somehow preserved (it happens, I have a 1929 Conn Pan American that was stored in oil in a barn in Texas, cleaned it's an etched mat silver jewel), but Olds engineering was really something special. Like going back into a magical time when people knew how to make machines out of metal.
Attachments
Last edited:
New should have a factory warranty.
Used instruments tend to have a mark down in price, so you can buy a higher quality horn for similar price. Of course there is the risk the horn may have been abused or has hidden defects. Hard to know if you getting a good horn at a good price if you don't know jack about trumpet.
My daughter bought a used horn from her instructor. It was a respected professional level horn (E. Benge) and had been appraised by a local shop for a bit more than she paid. She had no problems with it.
Used instruments tend to have a mark down in price, so you can buy a higher quality horn for similar price. Of course there is the risk the horn may have been abused or has hidden defects. Hard to know if you getting a good horn at a good price if you don't know jack about trumpet.
My daughter bought a used horn from her instructor. It was a respected professional level horn (E. Benge) and had been appraised by a local shop for a bit more than she paid. She had no problems with it.
Iām a longtime trumpet player, and BassBrass is pointing you in the right direction. As he noted, a problem with older trumpets is the cost of refurbishment. A trumpet in the hands of a middle or high school student can take a real beating and may need repair work. Any work on the valves is expensive, and despite what your local music store may tell you, there are a limited number of techs in this country who are capable of doing competent valve work. For those reasons, Iād suggest caution in buying a used trumpet from a high school student.
The TrumpetHerald website is a good place to look.
I suggest that you broaden your search to include Getzen. They are fine instruments, made in the US, and used ones are typically significantly less expensive than Bachs or Yamahas.
The TrumpetHerald website is a good place to look.
I suggest that you broaden your search to include Getzen. They are fine instruments, made in the US, and used ones are typically significantly less expensive than Bachs or Yamahas.
From your instructor (his or her own horn) is Great. less great is Through your instructor who is commissioned to push a brand.
Benge has 3 phases starting in Chicago. Eldon Benge decided to make them one at a time and he made a copy of the French Besson, the trumpet that began the modern concept of a trumpet fusing (early small bore trumpet used by Ellington and the like, basically a cornet with the old style pee shooter bell. The Chicago Benge is one of the best trumpets ever made, there is a model called Meha that's usually large bore (468 vs 459 regular). Then Benge moved to LA and Eldon and a guy named Zigamat Kanstul made the horns that became the standard in commercial recording. (Tijuanna Brass was done on Benge) I got a 73 LA Benge in high school and played it for 30 years. THEN Benge retired and sold his name to United Musical Instruments, UMI, aka King, they also bought out Conn and Martin...these are of lesser quality, but not terrible, and now they are no longer...but Zig Kanstul was allowed to take all the Benge bell molds and mandrels (for making bells) from the original Benge shop and he started Kanstul, so if you wanted a Benge in the 80s & 90s you'd get a Kanstul. They also made great cornets, flugles and even mariachi trumpets. They went out of business a couple of years ago, but there are still great Kanstuls around.
A real Benge has the 2nd valve tuning slide angled forward, not back unlike every other brand, and has a "resno-tempered bell" (whatever that means...but it is thin.
Last edited:
The valves are critical. Even ugly dings donāt matter much but if they valves donāt move fast then pass on it, no excuses. A beginner should have a working instrument. Anything used, have a real player come with you to evaluate. Fighting with bad valves is NOT worth it.
Used Yamahas can be great (mainly because the older new ones were great). For new or even used Iād seriously consider carolbrass (mentioned above also). Many custom builders use carol brass valves because they are very good. You can order online if there is a return policy and get it evaluated by someone trustworthy.
A good playable trumpet should be around $1000 new, $500 or so used (thank you inflation, used to be closer to half that).
Used Yamahas can be great (mainly because the older new ones were great). For new or even used Iād seriously consider carolbrass (mentioned above also). Many custom builders use carol brass valves because they are very good. You can order online if there is a return policy and get it evaluated by someone trustworthy.
A good playable trumpet should be around $1000 new, $500 or so used (thank you inflation, used to be closer to half that).
Austin custom brass has a bunch of used. Many may be more than you are looking for but gives you an idea whatās out there. I have experience that they play and check stuff and Iāve had good luck with them.
Note. To check for valve compression take out the valve slide almost all the way, then press the valve. If you hear a solid pop sound then the valves arenāt leaking around the edges. You should get this on valve 1 and 3. Valve 2 may be harder to tell since the tube is short.
Iād look for something comparable to this and make sure they have a return policy if ordering online.
www.austincustombrass.biz
Note. To check for valve compression take out the valve slide almost all the way, then press the valve. If you hear a solid pop sound then the valves arenāt leaking around the edges. You should get this on valve 1 and 3. Valve 2 may be harder to tell since the tube is short.
Iād look for something comparable to this and make sure they have a return policy if ordering online.
Introducing the ACB TR-1 Student Trumpet in Silver Plate!
Austin Custom Brass Web Store Introducing the ACB TR-1 Student Trumpet in Silver Plate! physical Bb Trumpets Austin Custom Brass New
www.austincustombrass.biz
Iāve gotten bargains from Facebook marketplace. Forgotten name brand horns from people cleaning out their closets. Iāve picked up Holtonās, Kings, Conns, for half the price of a brand new made in India horn thatās only good for the laquer paint.
Cornets go for less than trumpets. Same thing just shorter.
I donāt want to be a bragger, but I shop for horns for kids who want to play, but whose folks canāt afford them.
Iāve done it for years.
Last edited:
Good God, no. Not the same thing, it's own different thing. But what you are doing is fantastic.
A well maintained cornet might be perfect for a small child who has less reach to the valves, but that child will be required to change to trumpet with it's superior projection and brightness by high school (not to mention the issue of conformity which some kids care about). A cornet wouldn't blend in a trumpet section...some fascistic band directors require the same Bach for a section (good luck). Also in my experience a used cornet can be More beat up than a used trumpet. (I bought and sold many in the early 2000s...kept 3 wall hangers, 2 play but it isn't easy). My #1 is a Carol Brass large bore large bell American wrap in gold brass, it was $700 mint/used, easiest to play cornet I have.
These days a cornet may be used by a jazz soloist, or in the British Brass Band (no trumpets) or jazz recreation bands from New Orleans.
not the cornet on the cover, a Yamaha 203
Shaye Cohn (What's the Matter With the Mill?)
Last edited:
Carol Brass does make a pocket trumpet, which is pretty good ...for a pocket trumpet. 
I had one for a little bit for some jazz gigs. But yeah, kids in band need a full sized Bb instrument. Orchestra usually requires a C trumpet as well.
I had one for a little bit for some jazz gigs. But yeah, kids in band need a full sized Bb instrument. Orchestra usually requires a C trumpet as well.That's the P bass of the west coast commercial trumpet playing. ml or mlp? stamped above the 2nd valve tube. 459 vs 464.
Although Wayne Bergeron (god of living lead players) plays a Wayne Bergeron Yamaha. You only need one [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Last edited:
I would beg to differ. The cornet, granted is a more mellow tone than a trumpet.
But a Bb trumpet and a Bb cornet are the same fingering and they work well. Like I said, Iāve purchased many an instrument for $45-75.00
What I was saying is that a cornet is a perfect starter instrument. Most of them the beat up case is still superior to the India/China brands where the plastic shell cracks and the foam rubber guts pull out and the handle flies off.
Had valve problems with a lot of them. Btw, Iāve heard some kids literally shred on a cornet.
I love my Getzen trumpets but my favorite knock around go to horn is my 1960s Cleveland cornet
AFAIK cornet is not an acceptable proxy for trumpet.
I worked in professional concert bands. Cornet and trumpet were treated as different instruments with different textures.
Back when I was in high-school, I remember one of the trumpet players had a coronet. He was encourage to get an trumpet at the earliest.
I totally agree about staying away from Indian instruments and some Chinese (although they are getting better with supervision...) Trent Austin's own student brand is made in China and if Trent backs them, they must be decent. But the Indian instruments are called a trumpet-like-object for a reason.
This OP asked about a $600 budget trumpet. It isn't necessary for him to look for, settle on, a $75 cornet. I personally LOVE cornets because of their mellow sound. I have a new Carolbrass large bore & bell and a 1968 King Master copper (the best valves I own) and a 1980 Yamaha 232, just as Schilke designed it before their redone student line. I have a Getzen 3895 Custom flugalhorn too and appreciate everything good about it (valves, small bore, build quality wow) I would recommend a mint Getzen Eterna trumpet, That was one of the best so called student horns ever made! Now it's a step up horn and the 300 series is the student line https://www.getzen.com/trumpets/ I believe Ingred Jensen plays a bronze Getzen Genisis
sorry, It's just that whenever someone says cornets are The Same as trumpets, I am forced to disagree.
Sounds like I might need to up my budget. Availability of some of those brands is limited in Scotland.
Didn't know you were over there... this has the virtue of being pretty too (I like a 3 tone instrument with a red brass leadpipe, yellow brass bell and nickel silver details Bach TR500 | Rosehill Instruments that's just the first English brass store I clicked on. The valves are stainless so they are probably Carol Brass.
A student horn has a removable 3rd valve slide ring so a marching lyre can be attached, a pro horn has a fixed ring. This is to fix low D and C# which are naturally sharp, you manually give them more distance. Other notes that use the 3rd valve like G# Eb are in tune. The ring on the 1st valve is for sharp E and A (1&2) while Bb, D, F (1) are in tune,... also 2 by itself F#, B, Eb top space, high B is in tune... it's because of physics
Last edited:
Yeah I have their super small pocket trumpet and their Taylor-collab pocket flugelhorn. Really great valves.Carol Brass does make a pocket trumpet, which is pretty good ...for a pocket trumpet.
Standard Bb better for a beginner of course.
Austin custom brass does a line of doublers horns that they buy from various places then they do QC and alignment in their shop. For a student you can likely get a solid instrument that has been QCād and they have a return policy etc.
This one is 500 new. Can get something better for around that used if you are willing to hunt.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This one is 500 new. Can get something better for around that used if you are willing to hunt.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
