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Truss rod adjustment without loosening strings

#21
lots of good opinions ... but, I say do what you are comfortable with .. its your bass, and your $$ into it, and if you have an issue, it is you that needs to deal with it and correct it ...

.. with that said, I should preface what I say by adding that I generally buy less expensive gear, and adapt for my needs ... I also have purchased basses with maxxed truss rods, and/or excessive relief and corrected them to be usable ... I also have a fairly extensive woodworking background, but I am by no means, a luthier ... FWIW, I use my truss rods to 'hold' my corrections ... what I mean by that, is I generally always loosen strings, even if just a couple turns on the tuner, and always gently 'assist' the neck in the direction I need it to move, and THEN turn the truss rod nut my tweak .. is it overkill? probably, but its mine to do with, and I have seen too many pieces that previous owners have 'cranked on' and gotten no where or did damage ... its what I am comfortable doing, and if it isnt what a pro luthier does, thats fine ... I think its more important for ME to be doing the hands on work on my pieces, and being comfortable with it, than it is to farm repairs out and being afraid of it ... JMHO

Edit to add: all but one of my basses is headstock adjust truss rod ... that is and important thing for me to consider in my purchases ... my favorite profile neck is headstock adjust fortunately, and that goes on most of my bodies
 
#22
For me it depends on the guitar. A well made fairly new instrument should have no problem being adjusted while tuned at standard pitch.
Older vintage guitars may already be near the max as far as adjustment goes and have to be de-tuned at least a whole step.
If a great ammount of adjustment is needed, like going from a light gauge to a heavy guage string set, then I usually make about half the adjustment, let it set overnight, then make the final adjustment the next day.
I used to set up a lot of "Christmas Special" guitars for music stores every year. Out of the hundreds of these entry level instruments I never had problems with the t/r adjustment at standard pitch. Most of their demons were poor quality fretwork, but that's another subject.
B.
 
#23
OK! here are the facts. Loosen strings before adjustment and here's why! As a first time adjustment, you need to get the neck where you want it with some relief. If tightening the trussrod with string tension(180) lbs. you could over time strip or do damage to the trussrod it self. Trussrods are made to hold tension, not push back against string pressure. Once you get the rod in the ballpark of where you want it, it only takes a tweek of a quarter turn to restore the action from heat (upbow) or humidity (backbow). if YOU VALUE YOUR AXE, TAKE PROPER CARE OF IT AND YOU WONT NEED TO HAVE IT REPAIRED $$$$$$. Trussrod damage is expensive!!!! 42 years of experience. builds, kits, customization, electronics and repairs.
 
#24
From the Fender Set Up Guide;

"Caution: Because of the amount of string tension on the neck, you should loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod. After the adjustment is made, re-tune the strings and re-check the gap with the feeler gauge."
 
#25
I think it entirely depends on how much adjustment is needed. If it's a minor tweak, I don't loosen. If it's been sitting a while and needs a serious adjustment, I loosen them a little - say less than a 1/2 step intonation-wise.
 
#28
dStar said:
What's the down side of loosening the strings? Taking 20 seconds to retune? I think I'll loosen them.
Click to expand...

Seemingly. But it's a couple of minutes down and back. Plus, it is trial and error as opposed to dialing it in. Amazingly, the opposite argument is the complaint heard for necks with truss rod nuts on the body end. Is no one ever happy?

Try the math the way a busy shop does.

Two minutes x two attempts (on average) x twenty set ups x fifty weeks = Four thousand minutes. Four thousand minutes is sixty six hours and forty minutes. Multiply that times a rural or suburban shop rate of fifty dollars an hour (An urban shop rate will be seventy five dollars or more). That is over $3,300 in lost time a year.

That's a lot of hay for working blind!

If there is a good mechanical reason for loosening the strings, by all means do it. For good functioning instruments, twist the truss rod nut until the relief is correct and get on with the next task.
 
#30
202dy said:
Seemingly. But it's a couple of minutes down and back. Plus, it is trial and error as opposed to dialing it in. Amazingly, the opposite argument is the complaint heard for necks with truss rod nuts on the body end. Is no one ever happy?

Try the math the way a busy shop does.

Two minutes x two attempts (on average) x twenty set ups x fifty weeks = Four thousand minutes. Four thousand minutes is sixty six hours and forty minutes. Multiply that times a rural or suburban shop rate of fifty dollars an hour (An urban shop rate will be seventy five dollars or more). That is over $3,300 in lost time a year.

That's a lot of hay for working blind!

If there is a good mechanical reason for loosening the strings, by all means do it. For good functioning instruments, twist the truss rod nut until the relief is correct and get on with the next task.
Click to expand...

This is not to say that techs are bean-counters. I think we all do what we consider to be right under the circumstances. I've done plenty of work on basses that cost over $10,000 and even more that were purchased for a few hundred. If the trussrod was working fine and adjustments were going smoothly without a lot of force, I felt there was no reason to loosen the strings. On the other hand, if the bass seemed to be fighting me or the turns didn't seem to be effective, or any number of other factors
I might well loosen the strings. I suppose it's a matter of the amount of experience you have had.

But, if you really want to be safe, there's no harm in loosening the strings. It may mean a bit more fussing to dial in the optimal relief, but it may give you a feeling of "safety" - (but you can do just as much damage with slack strings).
 
#31
Bean counters? No, most are decidedly not. It is also true that most work for an establishment owned by someone knows how to run a business. For the independent operators, the importance of having some business and time management skills should not be down played. Those who have not learned some basics may, at some point, find themselves facing an involuntary career change.

With regard to the original topic, and to counter the assertions of an absolute rule, there are times when it is necessary and times when it is not. The instrument dictates to us, not the other way around.
 
#32
I figure if the manufacturer says "Caution" you need to loosen the strings, then I'll loosen the strings. I don't think they put that in the manual for no good reason. Call me crazy, but I follow the maintenance schedule on my cars too. Maybe I'm just getting old, you young whipper snappers are to much of a rush! Take the time to do the job right. ;) IMHO
 
#34
dStar said:
I figure if the manufacturer says "Caution" you need to loosen the strings, then I'll loosen the strings. I don't think they put that in the manual for no good reason. Call me crazy, but I follow the maintenance schedule on my cars too. Maybe I'm just getting old, you young whipper snappers are to much of a rush! Take the time to do the job right. ;) IMHO
Click to expand...

Manufacturers and builders are not repair techs. As a matter of fact, most manufacturers avoid engaging in the repair business by farming warranty work to authorized repair centers. In other words, local repair techs. Why do they do this? Simple. Repair work is a money losing proposition for them. It is also a complex training problem.

Building and repair work are two very different disciplines. Using your automobile analogy, the people who assemble automobiles usually are not the people who repair them. The vast majority of them do not possess the skills or training. By the same token, the local mechanic could take apart and reassemble your auto from scratch. The same is true for home builders and home remodelers.

So why the red flag cautions from the manufacturers? There are several reasons. Much like the disclaimer, "No user serviceable parts inside", the manufacturer seeks to limit their exposure to warranty work. By printing manuals with disclaimers or stern warnings they can discourage the average person from attempting repairs that are beyond their skill and making a mess of their instrument. This also limits the amount of money they will pay out to make unnecessary repairs to instruments, thereby reducing loss. Reduced loss equals greater profit.

As far as the propensity to snap whips goes, chances are that those you suggest as participating in that particular activity predate most of members on this board. It is not speed that is desired but accuracy and results. Speed is simply a function of repetition. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
 

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