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Truss Rod.....I don't get this.....

bassnyc1

bassnyc1

Jun 3, 2006
1,622
1,394
A native New Yorker living in Japan!
#1
A few years ago, I bought my nephew an SX shortscale bass because he wanted to learn. Fast forward a few years and it's been sitting in the corner of his room neglected (no surprise) so I decided I wanted to try to clean it up, re string it and give it a set up.

The strings are a mile high off the fretboard so I try to tighten the truss rod (it adjusts from the headstock) and the nut is rolling loosely. I turn it counter clockwise and it seems to be normal but I'm loosening now, right? The action doesn't get any better so I try to tighten it again but after a couple of turns its loose again. Does this mean the neck is basically shot?
 
#2
Sounds like the nut may be slipping on the threads. I would guess there is a way to fix it, although I wouldn't spend much money to repair a $100 bass.

It's never a bad idea to loosen the strings before you tighten the truss rod.
 
#3
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I loosened the strings. No, I won't be spending any money on a $100 bass. Part of the reason for doing this was to get more "practice" doing set ups and tinkering around with a cheap bass is the best way, I guess. Plus I really enjoy it!
So, back to my original question, I was doing the right thing by trying to tighten the truss rod, right?
 
#4
based on what i'm reading here, it makes me think the truss rod threads are stripped. the procedure you describe sounds right to me. keep the bass around so you can tinker with electronics, bridge setup, etc. here's one other thing to try: try tuning it down a half step or whole step so there's less tension on the neck and see if it's more playable that way.
 
#5
Yeah, the strings were tuned down at least a whole step and the strings were a mile high off the fretboard; even higher as they went up the neck. So my thinking was that I had to tighten the truss rod. From the start, as soon as I found the correct key, the rod was loose. Only by turning it counter clockwise (loosening) did it have some tension but of course that wasn't going to solve the problem. So I tried tightening it again and it was just rolling around in there loosely.

Hopefully, I learned something (?)
 
#9
Follow 202dy's lead. He will coach you on this. The truss rod nut sounds like a definite problem, but it may also require a shim to get the neck in the right orientation to the body. The truss rod is not always the solution to improving high action.

First things first, solve the issue with the truss rod nut. Once you get it out, you can visually inspect it and perhaps the top threads of the rod. Even if the rod is stripped, don't give up hope-there are tools which can re-thread the end of a truss rod.
 
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#10
bassnyc1 said:
Remembering that this is from the headstock, if I keep loosening the nut, it will come out? Also the truss rod itself will be exposed so that I can have a look at it?
Forgive my ignorance, I'm just trying to learn more about it. I'm thankful for the TB community for being so resourceful.
Click to expand...

Yes. You may have to turn the guitar upside down and give it a shake.

You may or may not be able to see the threads on the rod clearly. Use a flashlight or other strong light source. If the threads are not readily visible use something (a dental tool is excellent) to feel your way through the threads. If all seems well carefully thread the nut back on by first turning it counterclockwise until you feel it "click" into place. The nut and rod threads are seated at the beginning of each there. Run the nut on until snug. If there is a problem with threading the nut on, or any other truss rod problem someone here will help you.

The next thing to do is adjust the relief. Relief is measured at F-7,8 depending on whether a straight edge or the string is used. Average is around .012". Feeler gauges are useful in determining the relief.

Continue with normal setup procedures.
 
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#11
you can also put some ' lemon oil ' stuff on the neck to moisturize the wood ... just sitting in the A/C and/or heat will dry out the wood and it will shrink a bit ... and yes , like other have said ... take off the nut and have a look ... I replaced one of those headstock nuts on a old Fender a while back ... but the hex bullet end itself was striped ... time to start the mods .. !
 
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#15
Matty Koff said:
Am I wrong in thinking adjusting string height should be done from the saddles/bridge first before tackling the truss rod?
Click to expand...

Truss rod adjusts neck relief, not action. Usual procedure for setup is: nut, relief (truss rod), action (saddles), intonation.

I wonder how many necks are destroyed when people try to use the truss rod to adjust action instead of relief?
 
#16
Robus said:
Truss rod adjusts neck relief, not action. Usual procedure for setup is: nut, relief (truss rod), action (saddles), intonation.

I wonder how many necks are destroyed when people try to use the truss rod to adjust action instead of relief?
Click to expand...

Relief being measured by the string being pressed down to the first fret and somewhere around the 14th/15th fret - so in this regard it really has no effect on string height right? Truss rods are something I don't mess with. I'll take it to a tech first.. but adjusting my intonation and action I have no qualms with messing around with.

It just sits in my mind that if the strings were WAY off the fretboard I'd imagine that was due to someone adjusting the saddle height. But I'm no luthier. I just play the things.

Not to say that his truss rod moving around loosely is a good thing..
 
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#17
Matty Koff said:
Relief being measured by the string being pressed down to the first fret and somewhere around the 14th/15th fret - so in this regard it really has no effect on string height right? Truss rods are something I don't mess with. I'll take it to a tech first.. but adjusting my intonation and action I have no qualms with messing around with.

It just sits in my mind that if the strings were WAY off the fretboard I'd imagine that was due to someone adjusting the saddle height. But I'm no luthier. I just play the things.
Click to expand...

Don't be afraid to adjust your truss rod. There's no magic involved. The key is to measure so you know what you are doing, and whether your truss rod needs adjusting at all.

Follow the manufacturers instructions. For a typical Fender bass, you depress the low E (on a 4 string) at the first and last fret, then measure the gap between the underside of the string and the 8th fret. You're looking for a gap of about 0.012" (0.3 mm). Too much gap, tighten the truss rod. Too little, loosen it.

Make your adjustments a little at a time, say a quarter turn at most. Remeasure. It's a good idea to loosen the strings before tightening the truss rod.

Follow those procedures and you won't hurt your neck, assuming your neck and truss rod are in good shape to begin with. You'll also save money doing your own setup and keep your bass playing the way you like it.
 
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#18
Robus said:
Don't be afraid to adjust your truss rod. There's no magic involved. The key is to measure so you know what you are doing, and whether your truss rod needs adjusting at all.

Follow the manufacturers instructions. For a typical Fender bass, you depress the low E (on a 4 string) at the first and last fret, then measure the gap between the underside of the string and the 8th fret. You're looking for a gap of about 0.012" (0.3 mm). Too much gap, tighten the truss rod. Too little, loosen it.

Make your adjustments a little at a time, say a quarter turn at most. Remeasure. It's a good idea to loosen the strings before tightening the truss rod.

Follow those procedures and you won't hurt your neck, assuming your neck and truss rod are in good shape to begin with. You'll also save money doing your own setup and keep your bass playing the way you like it.
Click to expand...

I think part of it is I know I won't break anything by adjusting the saddles... I would be crushed if i cracked my neck. Taking it to the tech, at least I know if he breaks it he's fixing it. But with the way you put it, I might be measuring my own relief in the future. Thanks much.
 
#19
You're getting there. The function of the truss rod is to make the neck straight. That is, the truss rod's job is to support the neck against the force of the string tension. They are adjustable to allow for compensating for strings of different tensions. Once the truss rod is set right, it shouldn't need to be changed until different strings are used.

Once the neck is straight, adjusting action is done by adjusting the bridge saddles. I have gone years with no changes needed to the truss rod or the saddles. This is not something that needs to be constantly tweeked.

In your example, if the strings were WAY off the frets, you'd need to adjust the bridge saddles, OR shim the neck. Either way, the truss rod isn't going to do it. Get the neck straight and leave it alone.

The worst offenders for truss rod abuse are the acoustic guitarists. They don't have any other wrench adjustable parts on the instrument <g>

Raf
 
#20
Matty Koff said:
I think part of it is I know I won't break anything by adjusting the saddles... I would be crushed if i cracked my neck. Taking it to the tech, at least I know if he breaks it he's fixing it. But with the way you put it, I might be measuring my own relief in the future. Thanks much.
Click to expand...

Crack the neck? It is half a baseball bat of hard maple, more or less. Try cracking it with a two pound sledge. You'll have better luck.

Seriously, the bigger risk is twisting the end off the truss rod. Which is pretty tough to do if you are a regular tool user and understand the difference between snug, really tight, and leave it alone. If it squeaks, leave it alone.
 

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