Truss rod problem

[EADG mx]

I'm trying to tighten the t.r. on both of my basses and I'm having an issue

the rod will move and I'm applying pressure to the neck to help it adjust, but after 1/2 turn on both of them the relief doesn't really appear to have changed. I know they take a few days to settle, but ever over time they don't seem any different.

I don't want to overtighten because I don't want to break anything but I do want to see some results

I'm currently loosening only the D string, to access the t.r.

I'm going by the Gary Willis setup guide and he advocates keeping the strings on to keep the tension on the neck the same, but I've also seen websites that recommend removing all of the strings. Any time I've had it adjusted in a shop they've kept the strings on.


What should I do? Should I be applying more pressure to the neck? Taking all of the strings off?

 

[MichiBass]

Yes, usually I take the strings off (well, I loosen them until there is no tension). This way you allow your Truss Rod to "make the move". I let it for 1 hour with strings off, then I tune the bass and let it settle a few days...
Try and tell us if this helps...

 

[Eric Moesle]

Personally I never go more than 1/4 turn in a day, then let it stabiize before determining whether it needs more the next day.

 

[202dy]

Turn the truss rod nut until the relief is correct for your particular style of playing. Leave the strings on at tension. The strings must be at tension to determine if the relief is correct. Some feel the neck moves more easily if the strings are slack tuned. However, this adds a step that is usually unnecessary. Finish the setup.

It is true that some necks may move a bit after the adjustment is made. Most of these effects will be seen within an hour or two.

 

[EADG mx]

Yes, usually I take the strings off (well, I loosen them until there is no tension). This way you allow your Truss Rod to "make the move". I let it for 1 hour with strings off, then I tune the bass and let it settle a few days...
Try and tell us if this helps...

But then restringing again will add extra tension, and won't that cause the neck to bow, making the adjustment pointless in the first place?

 

[EADG mx]

Turn the truss rod nut until the relief is correct for your particular style of playing. Leave the strings on at tension. The strings must be at tension to determine if the relief is correct. Some feel the neck moves more easily if the strings are slack tuned. However, this adds a step that is usually unnecessary. Finish the setup.

It is true that some necks may move a bit after the adjustment is made. Most of these effects will be seen within an hour or two.

This is what I am doing. Problem is: turning the rod appears to have no effect on the neck, even over time.

 

[EADG mx]

Personally I never go more than 1/4 turn in a day, then let it stabiize before determining whether it needs more the next day.

Again, exactly what I'm doing but I'm not getting any results.

 

[MichiBass]

But then restringing again will add extra tension, and won't that cause the neck to bow, making the adjustment pointless in the first place?

Dunno dude, I do it this way. Reseting the tension helps the truss rod to move more freely, IMO...

 

[202dy]

This is what I am doing. Problem is: turning the rod appears to have no effect on the neck, even over time.

According to your original post, you are turning the nut 1/2 turn and letting it settle. Forget the 1/2 turn idea. Turn the nut until you get the desired relief. That's right. Just dial it up. If you turn the nut until it is tight (bottoms out against the threads on the rod) and it is still not moving then there is a different remedy.

If you have any mechanical ability you will know when to stop before breaking the rod. If you don't, know that the nut/rod will usually emit a loud squeak when it is getting too tight. When the wrench is very hard to turn it is probably there.

If all of this is too scary, take it to a pro. They can use the business and you will learn a lot from listening to them.

 

[EADG mx]

According to your original post, you are turning the nut 1/2 turn and letting it settle. Forget the 1/2 turn idea. Turn the nut until you get the desired relief. That's right. Just dial it up. If you turn the nut until it is tight (bottoms out against the threads on the rod) and it is still not moving then there is a different remedy.

If you have any mechanical ability you will know when to stop before breaking the rod. If you don't, know that the nut/rod will usually emit a loud squeak when it is getting too tight. When the wrench is very hard to turn it is probably there.

If all of this is too scary, take it to a pro. They can use the business and you will learn a lot from listening to them.

What do you mean by "threads"?


The rod on my 5 string moves easily but the one on my 4 string is harder to turn.. does this mean it's too tight? Or could this be caused by something else? I have a feeling it's just too tight but I don't see how this can be since the neck is still far from straight.

 

[202dy]

What do you mean by "threads"?


The rod on my 5 string moves easily but the one on my 4 string is harder to turn.. does this mean it's too tight? Or could this be caused by something else? I have a feeling it's just too tight but I don't see how this can be since the neck is still far from straight.

Threads are what makes a screw a screw.

It is probably time to take this guitar to a tech.

 

[EADG mx]

The reason I've starting doing this adjustment myself is because my local techs are so unhelpful.

Even when I want (and have had) lower action, they always seem to take one quick glance at my bass and say "oh it's fine"

 

[EADG mx]

So I'm pretty sure it's just out of adjustment room.. which is a shame because it's still not as straight as I'd like it, but then again it's a "starter" bass so I don't expect much out of it. I'm not sure I could lower the action much anyway due to some uneven frets, and the bass is definitely not worth a fret job. I'll most likely just get rid of it.

Anyway I did have this bass stored for (I think) about a year without playing or adjusting it.. could the t.r. be difficult to adjust because of this? Perhaps it just needs a cleaning/lubrication? Another idea I had.

 

[Chasarms]

So I'm pretty sure it's just out of adjustment room.. which is a shame because it's still not as straight as I'd like it, but then again it's a "starter" bass so I don't expect much out of it. I'm not sure I could lower the action much anyway due to some uneven frets, and the bass is definitely not worth a fret job. I'll most likely just get rid of it.

Anyway I did have this bass stored for (I think) about a year without playing or adjusting it.. could the t.r. be difficult to adjust because of this? Perhaps it just needs a cleaning/lubrication? Another idea I had.

If you were "out of adjustment room," the nut wouldn't turn at all.

If I have a trussrod that is difficult to turn, I usually loosen the strings slightly (a turn or two on the tuners) before adjusting. It is also helpful to sit in a chair with the bass between your legs (if the truss nut is at the nut end) You can then use your leg as a brace so that you can use the palm of one hand to slightly backbow the neck while you turn the rod nut with the other. This relieves the tension on the rod and allows it to move easier.


If the neck has too much relief turn the rod until it either bottoms out or until you get what you are looking for. There's no harm in it.

 

[EADG mx]

Well I am adjusting with the strings at slack (no tension), and I am positioning the bass between my legs to brace. I'm also applying pressure to the headstock.


All I know for sure is that the rod is difficult to turn. It still turns - but I have to force it. I just don't want to break anything because I know that it's a difficult (or impossible) repair, and not to mention expensive. On this bass it wouldn't be worth fixing anyway.

 

[Chasarms]

The truss rod nut is made of a higher lead content metal so that it is purposely softer than the steel truss rod. This is so the nut will strip under too much force before the rod will break or the threads on the rod will strip. With an otherwise healthy bass, the worst case is the truss nut strips and you have a $5.00 replacement.

I have NEVER in 20 years seen a neck with the actual rod broken. I'm sure it can happen, but I have never seen it.

You may want to consider backing the truss nut all the way off and adding a flat washer over the rod and screwing the nut back on. A little teflon or graphite powder between the two might make everything move much easier. Plus it gives you a little more room for adjustment.

 

[EADG mx]

The truss rod nut is made of a higher lead content metal so that it is purposely softer than the steel truss rod. This is so the nut will strip under too much force before the rod will break or the threads on the rod will strip. With an otherwise healthy bass, the worst case is the truss nut strips and you have a $5.00 replacement.

I have NEVER in 20 years seen a neck with the actual rod broken. I'm sure it can happen, but I have never seen it.

You may want to consider backing the truss nut all the way off and adding a flat washer over the rod and screwing the nut back on. A little teflon or graphite powder between the two might make everything move much easier. Plus it gives you a little more room for adjustment.

I had a friend who bought a used bass as his first, I recommended he get it set up and when he took it in they said his t.r. was broken and no longer adjustable. I'm not sure if it was the rod or just the nut.. if it was the nut and only a $5 repair I'm sure they would have fixed it though.

Anyway I'm still not sure how I would go about removing the nut.

 

[202dy]

The truss rod nut is made of a higher lead content metal so that it is purposely softer than the steel truss rod. This is so the nut will strip under too much force before the rod will break or the threads on the rod will strip. With an otherwise healthy bass, the worst case is the truss nut strips and you have a $5.00 replacement.

I have NEVER in 20 years seen a neck with the actual rod broken. I'm sure it can happen, but I have never seen it.

You may want to consider backing the truss nut all the way off and adding a flat washer over the rod and screwing the nut back on. A little teflon or graphite powder between the two might make everything move much easier. Plus it gives you a little more room for adjustment.

Good posts, Chas.

Lubing the nut will allow a decrease in torque while achieving the same result. Always a good idea.

If the situation is as the OP states, the neck might benefit from being clamped into a back bow while tightening the nut. The rod is taken slack before clamping.

As far as broken truss rods go, I've seen several. Adjusting nut at either end, to boot. IIRC, in each case the rod had a steel nut. Each time the rod was twisted off within a thread above or below the bearing ledge.

 

[EADG mx]

Lubing the nut will allow a decrease in torque while achieving the same result. Always a good idea.

How would I go about doing this?

If the situation is as the OP states, the neck might benefit from being clamped into a back bow while tightening the nut. The rod is taken slack before clamping.

Never heard of this, please explain?