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trying this again

secondtake

secondtake

Guest
Jun 16, 2016
20
17
#1
OK, I'm getting ready to take bass back up again after probably a 5-year break (can't recall exactly how long the break was).

I don't have a real desire to get back on stage - been there, done that - but if I wind up back on stage, that's fine, too.

The reason why I quit is because I'd been playing 24 years at the time and my ear was really subpar. That's the focus of my comeback attempt - developing my ear.

What I'd like to ask is this odd question: Can anyone develop relative pitch (not perfect pitch) with enough practice, or are there some people just doomed to never pick up the skill? If I study enough, will I be able to pick up relative pitch? All I want to do is just sit around the house and play some of my favorite songs by my favorite bass players, but my ear really holds me back. I think if I really try, I can do it, but I'm scared some people don't have "it," like some people aren't athletic or some can't dance. What say ye? Thanks.
 
#5
secondtake said:
.... What I'd like to ask is this odd question: Can anyone develop relative pitch (not perfect pitch) with enough practice, or are there some people just doomed to never pick up the skill? If I study enough, will I be able to pick up relative pitch? All I want to do is just sit around the house and play some of my favorite songs by my favorite bass players, but my ear really holds me back. I think if I really try, I can do it, but I'm scared some people don't have "it," like some people aren't athletic or some can't dance. What say ye? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Relative pitch is a learned skill. How well you learn it depends on the time you give it. For me finding the melody by ear is a hunt and peck process and not something I can do on the fly. But, give me time to figure out the key - or just tell me the key - and then between my ear and my knowledge of theory I'm good at assuming what the chord progression may be. Having a good idea what the chords will be and then let me listen for a verse and I can normally fall into an acceptable accompaniment groove.

Some of us have what I call a "tin ear", I'm one of them. How well we play by ear is a relative thing. Relative to what? How well we hear. At my age I no longer hear all the frequencies. Young children and especially young teen agers speak in a frequency I no longer hear (I hear them talking, but, have no idea what is being said). I think this affects how well I play by ear.

So to answer your question - some do this playing by ear better than others, but, there are ways around this problem. Don't let this stop you. There are all kinds of programs on the Internet - pick one and expect it to take some effort.
 
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#6
People who play non fixed pitch instruments, like unfettered strings and trombone, tend to develop this skill faster than people who play fixed pitch instruments. But anyone can learn it. It's part of a curriculum that starts with distinguishing between higher and lower pitches, then matching pitches, then recognizing intervals, then recognizing chord qualities.

Recognizing key is not part of this. That is perfect pitch, and is almost impossible to develop after puberty.
 
#7
I figure if chord charts/transcriptions on the Internet can get me a "running start," I might be able to eventually figure the rest out. I'm working off-instrument (don't have my bass yet) with the Functional Ear Trainer app and will add more bass-centric stuff to the "curriculum" later. I'm just hoping I don't throw hours at this thing only to hit a tin-eared wall and not be able to do it at all.

I figured perfect pitch was out of my reach, but didn't know it was that far out of my reach ...
 
#8
Don't kid yourself. Perfect pitch is a curse more than a blessing - I've met one person in my life with it, and they quit music because of it. Hearing minor tuning imperfections, etc made music miserable for her.

Good relative pitch is extremely useful, and is a learned ability.

Grab whatever instrument you have available, and play a note. Use that note as your key center, and sing a short phrase - 3 or 4 notes. Play the phrase you sung on your instrument. Keep trying, until you've found those notes. Once you've found them, sing and play the phrase in unison. Play it until it's automatic, then start over with a different phrase, and repeat those steps.

Given time you'll find that this exercise gets easier, so add another note to the phrase you sing.

Keep doing this as part of your practice routine, and you'll find relative pitch gets more and more attainable.

But remember, for some reason, you'll have days that it's easier than others. I have no idea why... But on the days that my pitch is suspect, I can always fall back on theoretical knowledge to get me through a gig, but the days that I can play what I hear in my head are almost magical.
 
#11
I tried the tone deaf test and am not tone deaf (whew!). I thought about trying some software like Guitar and Bass Ear Trainer, but if someone knows of some other bass-centric software that might work better, let me know. Thanks.
 
#12
My dad, a high school band director, bought me a trombone when I first started band. I had asked for a trumpet, but he said I had good relative pitch and should be on trombone.
I had a brother he put on tuba. He was tone deaf. Excellent technical skills, but couldn't tell one note from another... and they all sounded bad.
So, as with any other human skill, some are better at it naturally, but almost everyone can learn it.
 
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#13
I dunno why I thought I'd be better out of the box after about a 5-year break than I was, but the rust was thick and heavy. It'll come off. What was weird was I was expecting my fretting hand to be unworkable, but it was (reasonably) OK. My right hand was the one that was a mess. Straight eighths at any kind of tempo was a chore.

Time to go back to the drawing board - The Ramones' greatest hits. Lots of simple chord progressions that may help me with my ear and lots of eighths at fast tempos. Plus my Zoom multi-effect with the built-in "drum kits" arrives today, so it's time to whip that right hand into shape. Or something.
 
#15
Would you try to learn every lick off the bat, or "ease into it"? I played a very easy song by reading a chord chart for it, but the chart was wrong in the second verse, so I corrected it. This made me proud.

Then the next song I tried to play had this gonzo sliding, moving lick that made me very sad. I think I need to try to do some formal ear training (with some kind of program, whatever) and then get back into trying to learn songs.
 
#16
secondtake said:
Would you try to learn every lick off the bat, or "ease into it"? I played a very easy song by reading a chord chart for it, but the chart was wrong in the second verse, so I corrected it. This made me proud.

Then the next song I tried to play had this gonzo sliding, moving lick that made me very sad. I think I need to try to do some formal ear training (with some kind of program, whatever) and then get back into trying to learn songs.
Click to expand...
Learning songs WITHOUT TAB is ear training.

And it's the best kind; useful and not boring!
 
#17
I
tfer said:
Learning songs WITHOUT TAB is ear training.

And it's the best kind; useful and not boring!
Click to expand...
I'm by no means that far along. I was just proud of figuring out that, like 90 percent of the tabs out there, the tab was wrong. Figured that out by ear. Baby steps. I can't hear someone sing a note and tell them what it is, for example. It'll get there. I'm just trying to get my right hand working semi-correctly again.
 
#18
secondtake said:
I

I'm by no means that far along. I was just proud of figuring out that, like 90 percent of the tabs out there, the tab was wrong. Figured that out by ear. Baby steps. I can't hear someone sing a note and tell them what it is, for example. It'll get there. I'm just trying to get my right hand working semi-correctly again.
Click to expand...
Then pick easy songs!

You'll be working your right hand as you go, as well.

But if you really want to get your RH in shape, get a metronome and start at 60bpm, playing 1/2 or 1/4 notes - whichever you feel more comfortable subdividing in your head - and play the major scale in a box position. Then, play the natural minor scale. When you can do this comfortably, increase the speed.

Slowly.

But give yourself a break from exercises, and sit down with an iPod, and figure out tunes. It's why we play.
 
#19
Discouragement is the enemy of progress.

I've gotten markedly better, but I still can't nail five straight ascending minor seconds in a five-fret range after hearing them 3-4 times while being played at a horribly slow 30 bpm.

If anyone else here has done any semi-formal ear training, is "ear fatigue" real? I do seem to get worse as time passes, but it could be built-in discouragement from the misses. My psyche can't stand the idea of spending an hour a day for a solid month (like it may take) listening to ascending minor seconds. "Buh-duh" "Do-ri"

I've always imagined hell to be a shift at work that never ends, but it may just be an eternity of ascending minor seconds.

If you're good at something, never take it for granted. There's people who really struggle with things you've long taken for granted.
 

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