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Double Bass Tube Amps For Double Bass

#41
Some of your descriptions of the Orange Terror remind me of my encounters with the all-tube amps, particularly when it comes to the tone controls. (Also my old Alembic F-1X rackmount pre.)
My Sunn 200s and Traynor Bass Mate both have just one volume and two tone knobs. They can be frustrating to try and adjust, but they also hit some really heavenly spots I haven't quite been able to replicate with the much more intuitive Ampeg-style preamps (where "noon" more or less equals "flat"). The Sunn and the Traynor both have way-out-of-control lows and highs that are actually pretty fun and addictive. (Have no idea where the "flat" setting might be on either - might well not be one...)
I'm still working with the new Ampeg PF-50T, trying to get to some kind of middle ground between well-mannered and wild. I know for sure now that I prefer to run the master volume all the way open - that makes it respond more like the older amps I'm used to. (Tinkering with the biasing seemed subtle at home but I might experiment a bit more on the gig.)
Preamp tube swapping might be the next order of business. This may or may not yield anything, but I'll go ahead and start with the small bunch of spare old 12AX7s I already have laying around and see if anything happens. (Your experiences with the Orange amp seem contrary to what most folks have tried to tell me about the Ampeg. But then, a lot of them didn't actually try it. ;))
 
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#42
Jefenator said:
Preamp tube swapping might be the next order of business. This may or may not yield anything, but I'll go ahead and start with the small bunch of spare old 12AX7s I already have laying around and see if anything happens. (Your experiences with the Orange amp seem contrary to what most folks have tried to tell me about the Ampeg. But then, a lot of them didn't actually try it. ;))
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Seems like a lot of folks are afraid to try anything new. Probably a big reason I took a chance on the Orange TB. If I wanted to sound like everyone else, I'd just use what they do; which in the rockabilly world seems to fall heavily on GK.

I had an Ampeg SVT4 Pro that no matter what preamp tubes I tried didn't drastically change the sound at all. I love that the PF50T can also be used as a preamp for a power amp, so I'm curious to hear what results you get. I'd love to hear that B-15 sound into my Crest Prolite 2.0 into my F212.
 
#43
Hoyt said:
I had an Ampeg SVT4 Pro that no matter what preamp tubes I tried didn't drastically change the sound at all. I love that the PF50T can also be used as a preamp for a power amp, so I'm curious to hear what results you get. I'd love to hear that B-15 sound into my Crest Prolite 2.0 into my F212.
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Well maybe the folks in my other thread are right! (It did seem pretty remarkable that there actually was a consensus.)

The PF-50T can be run without a speaker and there's the DI that taps in after the tube power stage - that's pretty unusual. I'd sure like to try it for recording some time.
I haven't heard of folks using this head just to drive a SS power amp. The Ampeg 1-space rackmount pre's seem like a more practical solution for that. (I still sometimes deploy a SVT-IIP preamp driving a QSC PLX2402 power amp. Nice and punchy and loud. A bit unwieldy for my Jazz gigs and close but no cigar when it comes to replicating all-tube.)
 
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#46
Demeter VTBP-M-800D + Barefaced Super Midget user here.
Tried this new, for me, setup on upright last weekend, and it sounded great; more weight to the notes, especially on the G-string. However, my Realist equipped Pöllmann was suddenly more feedback-prone, and I discovered a wolf-tone of sorts when I played an A, in all three octaves, which couldn't easily be dialed out with the amp's modest eq options. So I'm looking into changing the pickup, since the heft and fidelity of this setup is so promising.
 
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#47
I'm finding the signal chain is pretty important. I was struggling with the Ampeg PF-50T, trying the fDeck preamp and eventually going straight in... but it just wasn't quite working right to my ears. Then I returned to my trusty old Biesele magnetic pickup [which conveniently features an active blending unit with an input that works great with piezos]. I had quit using it as the previous tube amp did not play well with it. But once I patched it back in, it was a total "search over". That unit sounds great through most kinds of amps - even straight in to a PA. The Ampeg tube head seems to make it just that much more lively. So I'm a very happy camper now.
The previous tube amp [vintage Traynor Bass Mate] was feeding back all the time, even at very low volumes. It had a very aggressive low end. The Ampeg by contrast never feeds back at any volume. (Even running straight in with no HPF - go figure...)
As a bonus, the other night I discovered for doubling I can just use both amp inputs. The upright goes into the padded input (going straight in with a piezo signal didn't work so well even though it was super hot - but now that the signal is buffered it seems to work just fine there) and the slab goes in the regular input. Have to turn the upright down just a bit to match levels but it works pretty good! (The less doohickeys I have to patch in, the less cables I have to run the happier I am provided the feel is right - and it is, now.)

doubling.jpg
 
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#48
I always use a preamplifier before I plug in, with a high pass filter, and I find that I get the best results running with a relatively hot input signal and I control the volume on the amp. Not so hot that I get distorsion, but hot enough where I can get that "feel"

I do my tone controlling with the Preamp. The tube amp is basically an on-off switch for me. But it sounds so good to me, when I plug the preamp into a different amp I just can't get the same experience
 
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#49
shwashwa said:
I always use a preamplifier before I plug in, with a high pass filter, and I find that I get the best results running with a relatively hot input signal and I control the volume on the amp. Not so hot that I get distorsion, but hot enough where I can get that "feel"

I do my tone controlling with the Preamp. The tube amp is basically an on-off switch for me. But it sounds so good to me, when I plug the preamp into a different amp I just can't get the same experience
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I heartily agree the combination of an excellent SS preamp (Grace Felix in my case) and a Tube Power amp sounds great with upright. I have been using an old Dynaco Mark III which is pretty much the same as a Sunn bass head without the preamp section.
 
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#50
flatback said:
I heartily agree the combination of an excellent SS preamp (Grace Felix in my case) and a Tube Power amp sounds great with upright. I have been using an old Dynaco Mark III which is pretty much the same as a Sunn bass head without the preamp section.
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I use the tube preamp section of the amp also. I plug into the regular input. I think the tube preamp is a big part of the sound also, and the gain staging is also important. It's a fender tone stack so I have a setting that works for most rooms and I just fine tune on the preamp pedal
 
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#51
Would be fun to see a "reverse hybrid" for double bass with a preamp section modeled after the Bergantino B|Amp for control (with all the crazy EQ options, HPF, Notch, phase & built in tuner...) then pipe that off to tube gain & power stages.
I worked with a particularly loud drummer for the first time in a while last night and the Ampeg PF-50T felt wonderful through my larger 1x12. I don't think I've ever been nearly so satisfied before at that volume level with an upright bass. It did break up occasionally but I didn't mind. (At those earplug volume levels, any notions of clean acoustic purity have gone way out the window...) When I was lower in the mix, I could still hear and feel everything I was doing - something about the way the low end "blossoms" with tube power.
Maybe I'm just drunk on the Kool-Aid but I swear the upright bass sounds more like a real wood instrument (as opposed to an amplified piezo signal) through tubes.
It actually pains me to play through my trusty old Markbass Little Mark II, anymore. (Sounds fine as always but that natural musical response is nowhere to be felt.)
 
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#54
I tried my pretty tubey sounding Streamliner a few times, and didn't like it as it lacked definition. Currently use a Phil Jones D400 and a Audiokeneieis birdhouse 4x6 which I like a lot. Very transparent and I like the compressor to even out wolf tones and spikes.

I think some of desired tone comes from first using and old kay into a GK head that had kind of an electric bass sound and that is the sound I got used to for amplified upright. I like the thread and somehow a tube head does seem right with the upright, and look forward to trying it at some point.
 
#55
While it's not a double bass, my acoustic bass guitar sounds much more "alive" with tubes than without. I recently made a video about how to record ABG. It includes several with and without comparisons of no tube vs. tube, some through DI, some mic'd cab (Barefaced Super Midget). The tube preamp I use is a Noble. It weighs just a few pounds so you get the rich, harmonic benefits of tube without the weight of a traditional tube amp. It has a terrific built in DI so you're good to go to FOH.

I had a Streamliner and sold it because voicing was too dark for acoustic bass. Even so on electric bass. With tubes, I think it's better to go with a more neutral voicing to let the instrument shine through.

 
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#56
I had some technical issues with my Ampeg PF-50T, so I got rid of it and quit trying to do the all-tube thing on Jazz gigs for a couple of years. I got this ValveTrain Brandywine amp this spring, hoping it might become my new tube DB workhorse. (Also picked up the Bag End S-15D which plays well with tube power. I think of the pairing as my "FrankenB-15".)
It seemed kind of lackluster for double bass at first, but I kept trying it from time to time. Tonight I think I figured it out. I use the "volume" knob as needed to excite the tubes then tame the stage volume with the knob at the left labeled "governor". This is different from other amps that either lack any sort of "master" volume or work better with that control cranked. (The knob works in reverse - the more you turn it clockwise, the more it reduces the volume. The little one on the right that trims input is that way, too. Weird...)
For the second set, I was happy. I was getting the tubes to mimic and thus accentuate the natural attack & growl of the bass.
So it looks like tube power is back on the menu! :bassist:

valvetrain-germans - 1.jpeg
 
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#58
Jefenator said:
The PF-50T can be run without a speaker and there's the DI that taps in after the tube power stage - that's pretty unusual. I'd sure like to try it for recording some time.
I haven't heard of folks using this head just to drive a SS power amp.
Click to expand...

I am feeding my Ampeg PF-20T into Markbass Little Mark III XLR input when I need to play realy loud...

There are threads here on TB where we discussed it (some others do it as well)...

Jefenator said:
The Ampeg 1-space rackmount pre's seem like a more practical solution for that.
Click to expand...

There are no power tube's in those preamps... Just sayin'...
 
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