Tube Amps. Worth it?

[B-line]

What was the question again??

Oh yeah, "Tube amp. Worth it?"

Speaking for myself, this one of mine

Certainly is.

It's a major ordeal to load-in /out due to the shape & the weight, 90 lbs. or so.

But its array of (3) 12AX7A'S and (6) 6L6GC's produce a defined tone that to my ears is 2nd to none.
...I had a guy tell me once, playing in beautiful Covington LA, that they came in the place because they heard the Bass (tone) outside!

These days I'm amazed & very happy with the quality sounds & power I get from my LMT-800 and Quilter BB. I can practically carry them in my pockets!

But there's something about that all tube tone.....

 

[Mr. Foxen]

But there's something about that all tube tone.....

That one is a hybrid tho, not enough valves there to run a graphic. Mostly tube tone.

 

[B-line]

That one is a hybrid tho, not enough valves there to run a graphic. Mostly tube tone.

Hybrid??

Read the Manual!

Your new BUSTER BASS 200 incorporates a single channel, all-tube pre-amp with the standard array of interactive rotary controls. It also provides a 7 Band Graphic Equalizer that may be used to further shape the sound and it can be used in conjunction with the rotary tone controls. The GRAPHIC EQ may be activated manually, or via a mini toggle switch located on the Front Panel. It may also be activated with the EQ Footswitch included with BUSTER.

http://mesaboogie.com/media/User Manuals/Buster Bass 200.pdf

Am I missing something??

 

[baxter_x]

That I can't argue with. But this whole "The audience doesn't know or care" thing is just a giant copout for not doing your best.

Yes they do care!! But they don't care if it's an all tube or an SS amp or class D or steam machine !

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Hybrid??

Read the Manual!

Your new BUSTER BASS 200 incorporates a single channel, all-tube pre-amp with the standard array of interactive rotary controls. It also provides a 7 Band Graphic Equalizer that may be used to further shape the sound and it can be used in conjunction with the rotary tone controls. The GRAPHIC EQ may be activated manually, or via a mini toggle switch located on the Front Panel. It may also be activated with the EQ Footswitch included with BUSTER.

http://mesaboogie.com/media/User Manuals/Buster Bass 200.pdf

Am I missing something??

It says right there there is a graphic. That's solid state run. They are just fudging the language because people think all tube is better. But solid state offers way better EQ options. So they've used solid state eq, but told you something is all tube. "This Marshall valvestate uses an all tube valve to give all tube tone." style.

 

[B-line]

It says right there there is a graphic. That's solid state run. They are just fudging the language because people think all tube is better. But solid state offers way better EQ options. So they've used solid state eq, but told you something is all tube. "This Marshall valvestate uses an all tube valve to give all tube tone." style.

Yes, the amp has a graphic eq. But with an all-tube pre-amp and an all-tube power amp section how is this to be classified as a hybrid amp?

FWIW, I rarely if ever use the graphic eq, but that's besides the point.

Hybrid?

 

[Al Kraft]

IMO a particular tube amp is totally worth it if it provides you a sound/tone/voicing you can't get with any other amp (tube or SS or hybrid) and it meets your other needs (size, weight). I feel like people focus too much on teh kind of technology rather than the sound they want/need. I've heard tube amps that would make a poor SS amp sound like angels singing and vice versa.

Good tube heads/amps have some nice musical qualities IME and there is a reason they are still around while top of the line TV sets and radios are now exclusively SS.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Yes, the amp has a graphic eq. But with an all-tube pre-amp and an all-tube power amp section how is this to be classified as a hybrid amp?

FWIW, I rarely if ever use the graphic eq, but that's besides the point.

Hybrid?

When you put in a solid state bit, what you have is a hybrid. Because you've got tubes, and solid state. As opposed to all tubes. If you disregard the parts that are not tube, anything with a tube is all tube. Kinda the point of the term 'all tube' is to differentiate from stuff that has tubes and solid state.

 

[B-line]

When you put in a solid state bit, what you have is a hybrid. Because you've got tubes, and solid state. As opposed to all tubes. If you disregard the parts that are not tube, anything with a tube is all tube. Kinda the point of the term 'all tube' is to differentiate from stuff that has tubes and solid state.

OK you win!

I can now no longer take pride in the sound of my (formerly all-tube) BUSTER now that I know that within lies a solid state "bit"
Woe is me!

 

[Mr. Foxen]

OK you win!

I can now no longer take pride in the sound of my (formerly all-tube) BUSTER now that I know that within lies a solid state "bit"
Woe is me!

Solid state is better for preamps though. Tube pres are pretty limiting. You'd need another four or five pre valves for that graphic.

 

[JimmyM]

When you put in a solid state bit, what you have is a hybrid. Because you've got tubes, and solid state. As opposed to all tubes. If you disregard the parts that are not tube, anything with a tube is all tube. Kinda the point of the term 'all tube' is to differentiate from stuff that has tubes and solid state.

Buster is all tube, and a graphic Eq that you choose to use or not use doesn't make it a hybrid.

 

[B-line]

Solid state is better for preamps though. Tube pres are pretty limiting. You'd need another four or five pre valves for that graphic.

Well, that wouldn't add all that much weight I suppose, but I think I'll stick with MESA's original design (keeping it OEM/Stock and all).

I never use the graphic eq; don't find it necessary to enhance what I get from the very simple rotary 3-band tone controls.

Seeing as I keep it "OFF", can I now claim that I am using an "all-tube" amp?

 

[B-line]

Buster is all tube, and a graphic Eq that you choose to use or not use doesn't make it a hybrid.

THANK YOU Jimmy M!!

 

[Al Kraft]

When you put in a solid state bit, what you have is a hybrid. Because you've got tubes, and solid state. As opposed to all tubes. If you disregard the parts that are not tube, anything with a tube is all tube. Kinda the point of the term 'all tube' is to differentiate from stuff that has tubes and solid state.

Respectfully, I always thought the phrase tube head was referring to a head with tube preamp and tube power amp sections, where hybrid was typically a tube preamp and SS power section. I fully understand what you said, but I never really thought about it that way, and don't think others usually do either.

 

[B-line]

Respectfully, I always thought the phrase tube head was referring to a head with tube preamp and tube power amp sections, where hybrid was typically a tube preamp and SS power section. I fully understand what you said, but I never really thought about it that way, and don't think others usually do either.

Well. that's what I always adhered to as well, but then again-We can learn something new every day.

I believe Mr. Foxen to be adept from an engineering-type standpoint, so I wouldn't try to engage in a technical back-and forth seeing as I am a simple (and somewhat funky so I'm told) bass player w/out much background in EE.

However- my original point still stands: My all-tube (or not) BUSTER is "Worth It"!

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Respectfully, I always thought the phrase tube head was referring to a head with tube preamp and tube power amp sections, where hybrid was typically a tube preamp and SS power section. I fully understand what you said, but I never really thought about it that way, and don't think others usually do either.

"tube head" = tube power section at least. "All tube" = no solid state in signal path. Then you get to subdividing sections like Mesa did in their blurb so "All tube [specific subsection that doesn't have the SS stuff in it].

Marketing does rely on people thinking things that are not true.

The real question is why people insist all tube is better, whilst citing hybrids as examples.

Edit: Basically, the 'all tube' thing kinda supports my earlier statement that the important stuff comes from the power section. Tube pres are basically a gimmick.

 

[B-line]

"tube head" = tube power section at least. "All tube" = no solid state in signal path. Then you get to subdividing sections like Mesa did in their blurb so "All tube [specific subsection that doesn't have the SS stuff in it].

Marketing does rely on people thinking things that are not true.

The real question is why people insist all tube is better, whilst citing hybrids as examples.

Edit: Basically, the 'all tube' thing kinda supports my earlier statement that the important stuff comes from the power section. Tube pres are basically a gimmick.

OK OK
Not all tube!

You win!

 

[Al Kraft]

"tube head" = tube power section at least. "All tube" = no solid state in signal path. Then you get to subdividing sections like Mesa did in their blurb so "All tube [specific subsection that doesn't have the SS stuff in it].

Marketing does rely on people thinking things that are not true.

The real question is why people insist all tube is better, whilst citing hybrids as examples.

Edit: Basically, the 'all tube' thing kinda supports my earlier statement that the important stuff comes from the power section. Tube pres are basically a gimmick.

Thanks for sharing some new insights to update my old thinking! If I may ask, when you mention the "tube in the preamp is basically a gimmick" thought are you discounting what GK did with their Fusion series where I think the 3 tubes control the EQ and handle other typical preamp duties? The Aguilar DB750/751 also have 3 tubes in the preamp and IIRC people have said they get different voicing/tone by rolling tubes. My sense is that in these cases the tube preamp might be allowing the designer to get some tonal qualities that "mostly SS with a tube for advertising purposes" would not. Am I off base in that thinking? Please know that I'm curious about how you see this and not trying to argue.

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks for sharing some new insights to update my old thinking! If I may ask, when you mention the "tube in the preamp is basically a gimmick" thought are you discounting what GK did with their Fusion series where I think the 3 tubes control the EQ and handle other typical preamp duties? The Aguilar DB750/751 also have 3 tubes in the preamp and IIRC people have said they get different voicing/tone by rolling tubes. My sense is that in these cases the tube preamp might be allowing the designer to get some tonal qualities that "mostly SS with a tube for advertising purposes" would not. Am I off base in that thinking? Please know that I'm curious about how you see this and not trying to argue.

No you are not. Hey, some all-tube amps have solid state rectification but they're still all-tube amps to everyone except the very most nitpicky pedantics out there who mainly use it to try and win arguments on the internet. I give this argument a big "whatever."

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Thanks for sharing some new insights to update my old thinking! If I may ask, when you mention the "tube in the preamp is basically a gimmick" thought are you discounting what GK did with their Fusion series where I think the 3 tubes control the EQ and handle other typical preamp duties? The Aguilar DB750/751 also have 3 tubes in the preamp and IIRC people have said they get different voicing/tone by rolling tubes. My sense is that in these cases the tube preamp might be allowing the designer to get some tonal qualities that "mostly SS with a tube for advertising purposes" would not. Am I off base in that thinking? Please know that I'm curious about how you see this and not trying to argue.

Outside of cool distortion, SS can do preamp functions such as EQ better (hence the SS graphic on Mesa to overcome the limited knob eq), especially when having lots of options. There is a lot to be said for seriously limiting how much eq knobs do in the hands of players, and that is inherent to the standard FMV tone stack found on valve amps, but that is passive and could have the make up gain applied with SS anyway. Even valve pre variants with loads of EQ sweep (Baxandall etc.) are way less popular that the FMV, although Ampeg use them and the vastly greater range of eq means less need for adding a graphic (although some model do anyway, does anyone use the graphic on them?). Basic valve preamps are very well known at both ends, so kind of a wasted effort to emulate them with solid state stuff (outside of digital, which obv does it loads), stick with what's known and everyone is happy.

I use all valve preamps for my stuff, because I don't need much EQ (these have way more than the standard anyway) and distortion figures highly. I keep big tone shape shifts in solid state pedals.