Tube preamp pedal questions/dicussion

[drumrtommy]

I am almost hesitant to ask because I don’t want to open a can of worms. And this is going to be very long winded, thank you to all who will be reading this. Maybe I am thinking out loud, literally this has been on my mind all week.

Up front I’m a “professional” drummer and drum teacher, whatever that means. I think it just means I pay a lot of taxes and don’t work a 9-5. As a bassist, I play at a larger church that uses IEM, play in student bands, and the occasional small cover band gig.

For a year I’ve used a Two Notes bass revolt, it’s fantastic. I sold it to get a GX100 which I tried for a month and sold it to buy, well another revolt. Sometime the last few weeks I purchased a Carl Martin bass drive, and traded my MISO for a Broughton Mini Fridge DI.

Side note, I sold the revolt the first time because it was extremely functional and almost stale since it worked so well, but after I sold it, I realized how important that it was to “my sound”.

Here’s my dilemma. I don’t want a large board, I don’t want redundancy, and I don’t want to have effects sitting in my closet.

I want a board that “leans” toward CCM but I am also aware that the sound now may not be the sound in 5-10 years, so versatility is preferred.

The board I imagine for that would be tuner-two notes revolt- FX out to HX stomp (which I don’t have) and out.

What I have currently in my collection is a revolt, Carl Martin drive, tuner, mini fridge, OC2, LS2, and DS1. Id like to grab (not necessarily all of these) a Julia chorus, microsynth DCX Bass, compressor, and HX stomp

The problem is, I like the bass drive sound and I feel it’s redundant to have both the Carl Martin and revolt running at the same time as the are both tube preamps. Originally I wanted to run into the revolt then FX out to the CM and another gain stage. Having the CM almost rendered the clean channel useless (actually not really, it’s adds a body to the sound). But then I have a pedal replacing a channel, then why have the revolt at all? I’ve ran both together in different configurations and side by side and am at a loss.

The DI out on the revolt is based off an ampeg 810, the mini fridge is bass off an ampeg 810. The Carl Martin is darker but powerful, the revolt is cleaner and more versatile.
The mini fridge is scoop as hell, but not terrible

If I split into two boards I could have the revolt HX combo and the Carl Martin and mini fridge with other effects combo, but then I have two boards. Ideally I’d like one. The Carl Martin adds a special bottom to the sound, but then I have two tube stages in the mix and why not just have one? I could do some creative routing with the LS2, again, why?

And I don’t want to replace the DI on the revolt with the mini fridge DI. The CM and mini fridge is what the revolt aims to be, if it came down to it I do prefer the revolt sound overall but I really enjoy the sound and uniqueness of the Carl Martin. And the clean channel and CM can sound the same but the CM has a special bottom to it.

I’m in the half effects half raw camp, effects are awesome and fun I love them, but I don’t want a large ass board just to play bass.

Would having two tube preamp stages be weird or wasteful? I also feel like the Carl Martin does a better job at that tone hammer sound the CCM guys have.

Hopefully this comes across well, I’m curious how the internet feels as I’m sure I’m not the only one who loses sleep over this, much like how best to mount a rack tom with a 30” bass drum. For reference here is my board compared to the main bassist at the church

 

[drumrtommy]

Also, the revolt has an aux in and headphone out

 

[8liter]

I took a shot and moved from Dark Glass to the ReVolt and I absolutely love it. I run it into my Ampeg VR 200 with the 2x10 cab and it slams.

 

[fauxtoe]

I want a board that “leans” toward CCM but I am also aware that the sound now may not be the sound in 5-10 years, so versatility is preferred.

From my now many years of experience with CCM, you're overthinking this. 1. We're lucky to even be audible in the mix, 2. It's never once mattered what bass or preamp I've used, and I've shuffled around through a lot of them just because. The only thing that has ever been said to me from the other musicians (not FOH) is they like when there is more girth to the signal (like an SVT sim or something similar) as straight direct bass tends to be a little lifeless and harsh. Pick the one you like and that will be the right one.

The main sound of CCM bass is not going to change so drastically that you're going to have to go out and buy all new everything. But, isn't that the fun of pedal boards and being able to have the ability to swap out things as needed? 5-10 years down the road shouldn't be something you should be worrying about now. You can swap out whatever you want to keep up with the times or new technology - if it actually even matters.

Just some food for thought because it's way too easy to get lost down the tone rabbit hole. Most of the time it's much more simplistic than we try and tell ourselves.

 

[joeLowB]

Ditto on @fauxtoe comments. My main playing is CCM in our church.

It's easy to overthink this. Simplicity is key. Find a basic rig you enjoy and focus on playing. The music won't change that much, if at all.

I do the same...and have landed on simplicity.

Thanks for asking!

 

[drumrtommy]

Hey guys your responses have been helpful, and you’re most definitely right. For sure overthinking it.

The most simple thing I think is just split into two boards, it’s not like I HAVE to use everything but I personally like a one and done type thing.

It’s funny too because I only want a microsynth because that’s what everyone has but it’s also like, you don’t really need one you know?

I think good tone is always going to be good tone for sure

And I was talking with a buddy about it today, I don’t think I know what I want “my sound” to be.

I’ll keep an eye on the replies and see how everyone else handles their mental gear break downs!

 

[fauxtoe]

Ditto on @fauxtoe comments. My main playing is CCM in our church.

It's easy to overthink this. Simplicity is key. Find a basic rig you enjoy and focus on playing. The music won't change that much, if at all.

I do the same...and have landed on simplicity.

Thanks for asking!

Hey guys your responses have been helpful, and you’re most definitely right. For sure overthinking it.

The most simple thing I think is just split into two boards, it’s not like I HAVE to use everything but I personally like a one and done type thing.

It’s funny too because I only want a microsynth because that’s what everyone has but it’s also like, you don’t really need one you know?

I think good tone is always going to be good tone for sure

And I was talking with a buddy about it today, I don’t think I know what I want “my sound” to be.

I’ll keep an eye on the replies and see how everyone else handles their mental gear break downs!

And I say this as someone who just completely gutted my whole board for a pretty big overhaul. It didn't change the end of my chain and the main tone (which is simple), but everything else in between is now handled in a more efficient (and only as complicated as I want) way with nearly an infinite possibility of how I manage the effects. I initially started the upgrade to fix a faulty looper, but instead it turned into how I could do everything a whole lot better while having more fun - and that's the key. This needs to be fun and not stressful!

 

[drumrtommy]

Stressful indeed. I don’t like having too many options. I’ve been ABing these for 45 minutes. Safe to say I’ve ruled out the mini fridge, it’s just too scooped

I can only use my fender rumble 100 right now going into the return jack, my amp at my teaching studio is a kustom k250 with matching 215 cab

 

[drumrtommy]

The clean channel on the revolt and the bass drive get pretty dang close, the different starts when switching to the dirt, but in comparison, the bass drive has much more bottom end and roundness. It’s also has a lot of noise

 

[klattman]

The HX stomp by itself will do a great job covering amp sims, chorus and modulation.
You could seriously get by with that and a radial DI box.
However if the revolt preamp feels the way you want you could add that.
I also have a lot of trouble with the synth sounds and envelope filter sounds in the HX, but the octave and almost everything else is great.

I think you should do the revolt into the HX stomp (or even in the HX stomp loop and assign the revolt in presets exactly where you want it in the chain).
Then use a sterile DI to get it to XLR FOH.

That’s three boxes which will fit on a pretty small board. With the ability to signal split and eq like crazy within the Stomp, you should be able to get by with just that. I’d say try it and then see if you are missing anything.

I usually have two drive pedals for some difference, then a good clean DI. In front of that an mxr octave or the new mxr bass synth and a tuner and something to set input gain.

 

[drumrtommy]

Yea I think the HX stomp revolt combo is the way to go.

So I threw the mini fridge after the revolt just for kicks, it adds a whole other character, like the revolt on steroids!

I have had an HX stomp before, I traded it, kick myself for that. I have all the IMA presets and Bryce Vaughn. I think that is the way to go

 

[drumrtommy]

I also want to say you guys are awesome

 

[Geri O]

I guess I kinda run against the grain of CCM bassists and bass tones.

I simply plug into a REDDI. Straight to the console. A high-end digital console with lots of EQ and a few plug-in options. I don’t really know what they are doing with my tone there.

I pretty much always like what I hear on the playback audio and video recordings I hear. In a good place and it sounds like me and my bass. The various MDs, producers, and engineers like my tone as well.

We are taking CCM songs and not trying to reproduce the original recordings. Just making the songs our own. If they wanted to reproduce a Bethel song with that grindy distorted, errr, overdriven Precision tone, I would be in trouble….

 

[el murdoque]

If you get 'your' tone by running the CM into the Revolt and only use one channel of the Revolt, than that's that.
You can accept that and roll with it.
You can make up some stupid rules about not being allowed two preamps with a tube.
You can also go on a bender and try to find smaller, single purpose pedals that will do exactly what you're looking for and nothing else, so you don't waste ... real estate on your board.

 

[Ross Davies]

Ross from Two notes here!

Just wanted to chime in and note that we see a lot of users adding ReVolt to the FX loop of the HX for placement within the HX signal chain — the results I have heard are great! You can also assign MIDI tied to the HX preset changes for channel changes in ReVolt for more flexibility.

If anyone has any setup questions on this, let me know! Always happy to weigh in!

 

[drumrtommy]

Ross from Two notes here!

Just wanted to chime in and note that we see a lot of users adding ReVolt to the FX loop of the HX for placement within the HX signal chain — the results I have heard are great! You can also assign MIDI tied to the HX preset changes for channel changes in ReVolt for more flexibility.

If anyone has any setup questions on this, let me know! Always happy to weigh in!

I like hitting the revolt first before any other effects and looping them out back to the revolt. I plan on doing that once I get and HX stomp

There is an issue with the one I purchased since it was second hand, I contacted the help desk via the website @Ross Davies

I also told them that they need to give you a raise!!

 

[Ritter667]

Honestly, your reasoning doesn't make any real sense...

If it sounds good it sounds good.

And you wouldn't have any problem with running two transistor based pedals or two digital pedals, would you?

You would die of OCD if you saw my signal chain.

 

[drumrtommy]

Honestly, your reasoning doesn't make any real sense...

If it sounds good it sounds good.

And you wouldn't have any problem with running two transistor based pedals or two digital pedals, would you?

You would die of OCD if you saw my signal chain.

The thing I have a problem with is that I feel like I am wasting pedals. The revolt is great in its own, but adding the CM seems like it’s wasting the revolt. Or maybe I just need permission to use two tube preamp stages. I feel like I’m wasting something running to preamp stages at the same time, CM into the clean channel of the revolt. I also don’t want to have a DI I don’t use, it comes down to not wanting anything to “go to waste”

I don’t use the modern drive channel on the revolt as I don’t care for it and think it loses too much low end.

It’s crazy I know. Listening to everyone’s opinions on it is helpful. I have these non existent rules in my head because “bass players don’t need pedals” so I don’t want to be judged, same reason it’s frowned upon showing up to a gig with 4 Toms on a drum set.

The bottom line is I and everyone else shouldn’t care what others think.

I believed that in asking the question, I would see different perspectives. The responses have been very helpful to me and I appreciate it.

This is another layout that I was messing with, most these pedals are just place holders to gauge size, I think keeping the revolt and CM would be fine

Thanks again everyone

 

[Ross Davies]

I like hitting the revolt first before any other effects and looping them out back to the revolt. I plan on doing that once I get and HX stomp

There is an issue with the one I purchased since it was second hand, I contacted the help desk via the website @Ross Davies

I also told them that they need to give you a raise!!

Well, that can certainly work too!

That is a shame regarding your second hand purchase - however I am sure we will get you up and running in no time!

Thanks so much for the raise request but helping out my fellow Bass players is all good for me!

 

[drumrtommy]

For anyone wanting to know:

I think I settled on this-

Tuner-revolt (3 channels clean, dirt drive)- revolt send- LS2- DS1- (other drives and FX later)- back in- revolt return-out to OC5-Carl martin- broughton mini fridge-

Essentially I make the Carl Martin and mini fridge an amp and cab set up that will DI to FOH or go into an amps return loop

Have to be careful with the gain staging, it sounds wonky if there is too much drive on the Carl Martin this late in the chain. But everything is blended and balanced