Tube Watts vs. Solid State Watts, Conversion?

[JimmyM]

Really, honest, I'm asking because I don't know.

Why are amps rated with watts anyway? If loudness is what people are after, why not rate them with decibels?

decibels are HIGHLY dependent on the speaker rig, that's why.

 

[BassmanPaul]

If you put 300W at 1% distortion into a speaker system it will be precisely the same volume whether derived from a tube amp or a SS one.

If you need to have 350W, for example, a 300W tube amp will sound much nicer than a 300W SS one. At this level both are being pushed past their limits into distortion. If you like distortion, tubes do that more pleasantly. I don't! I was forced to live with it in the early days as were we all of a "certain" age! I much prefer to have a lot of headroom so that I never enter into the distortion zone.

If you only use 200W of that available power both amps will have equal "loudness".

Calaverasgrande I will never again use a full tube amp on stage. I've been there and done that for too many years. I have no "Tube envy" however I DO like to have a tube in the chain somewhere.

Paul

 

[JHorstmann]

lol...ok, sort of busted...i don't always read names.

anyway, i don't know how you could put up an argument stating "more sound with a tube amp" after reading this thread. "more sound" isn't exactly a scientific explanation and that's why i assumed what i did.

Haha. Well we're not exactly scientists now are we? The reason I say sound is because:

1) I'm not going to understand have the words said in that explanation that is 'scientifically accurate'
2) Maybe it would be better to say a tube amp pushes the signal as a more natural means. Meaning the louder it gets gradually the more distorted it gets gradually vs. an SS gets loud with no distortion until POOF, sounds like, well you know- crap.

So while an SS and Tube technically PEAK at the same level going through the same cab. It is hard to notice a tube amp's break up until far later.

Not only that, the Tube amp breakup is an often sought after effect that many prefer over a 'clean' tone.

How exactly a tube amp can go more than twice as far as an SS is beyond my logical thinking. I understand why, I just don't understand how.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I think it just boils down to...bassists love to talk about this topic.

 

[JimmyM]

it's because past the rms wattage rating, amps have double or more in peak power. an svt can do up to 700w peak, for example. but ss amps generally won't let you get into peak power because it clips so nasty. you can push a bit more if it's a hybrid, but otherwise not.

 

[Jim C]

If you put 300W at 1% distortion into a speaker system it will be precisely the same volume whether derived from a tube amp or a SS one.

If you need to have 350W, for example, a 300W tube amp will sound much nicer than a 300W SS one. At this level both are being pushed past their limits into distortion. If you like distortion, tubes do that more pleasantly. I don't! I was forced to live with it in the early days as were we all of a "certain" age! I much prefer to have a lot of headroom so that I never enter into the distortion zone.

If you only use 200W of that available power both amps will have equal "loudness".

Calaverasgrande I will never again use a full tube amp on stage. I've been there and done that for too many years. I have no "Tube envy" however I DO like to have a tube in the chain somewhere.

Paul

I was trying to say exactly that although you've done a much better job of it Paul!
Seems as if this post keeps coming back around as a way of justifying lower powered tube amps; they need no justification; they have lovely tone and a finite amount of clean power just as SS amps do. Seems like the discussion is more about tube distortion = good, and SS distortion = bad.
This is probably true for many; OTOH any distortion is bad in my back including the speaker system.
You opinions may very

 

[bigsack]

it's so funny every forum has it's own eternal thread.
with diy forums it's the cables issue,
hifi forums got the digital vs analog and here we got
the tube solid state thingy.
let's try a diffrent psychological approach to understand the diffrence.
think of the coffee you drink in the morning.
if you were drinking solid state coffee and you add too much
milk the coffee will spill out of the cup.
if you were drinking tube coffee and you add too much milk
the excess milk will magacilly turn into sugar

 

[lpdeluxe]

I think it just boils down to...bassists love to talk about this topic.

That's it.

I have a 300 watt Mesa/Boogie Walkabout Scout 1x15 hybrid (tube pre, solid state power) and a 300 watt Fender Bassman 400 210 (all solid state) and they sound really different.

Is this because the tube in the M/B is more natural than the transistors in the Fender? And what is, "more natural" in the context of devices that could never occur in a state of nature? Or, is it because of the difference in "tube" vs "solid state" watts, and how do you apply any derived percentage of change when it's a preamp tube and not a power tube?

While we're at it, have there ever been any two amp manufacturers who measure wattage precisely the same way? Or, for that matter, any manufacturer who didn't measure using the method that measured the best (i e, the most watts)?

A friend just measured a guitar amplifier that is advertised as putting out 200 watts RMS -- he measured 60 before the transformer burned up.

Or is that because he didn't use tube test gear?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[johnk_10]

IMO a tube preamp has nothing to do with sounding, feeling or being louder.

i've been using a Focusrite ISA430 MKII (SS) and a UA 6176 (Tube) as preamps at my gigs lately, and they have the same volume and/or 'perceived' volume. as long as i use the same power amp (which i do, a Crown xti2000) there is no difference in their output.

so, IMO, i believe that this thread is actually aimed at talking about tube poweramps vs SS poweramps.

2 cents..............

 

[kcolyar]

after reading these post's, I think it's starting to make sense to me. I was wondering this a year ago and started a similar thread after a bass mag said they wished a TC450 made more power then turned around and said the Peavey 300 watter was plenty loud. I got confused. Never used more than 300 or 400 watts in the old days. Without PA support, then saw some TB'ers 1000 and more watt systems and wondered of the power ratings had changed since 84'

 

[Jim C]

I can't think of any amps (other than pre/power rigs) that put out more than a few hundred watts in 1984.
A kilowatt has become pretty standard fare for a number of maunfacturers these days.

 

[Chef]

due to this topic being overdone already, many times, and, there being several reported posts for bad behavior in here;

this one is done.

closed.