Tube watts vs Solid State watts

[silky smoove]

A watt is 1 joule per second.

Watts are not a measurement of sound pressure levels, so the initial premise is flawed. How much louder is a 60 watt lightbulb than a 50 watt lightbulb? What about LED bulbs that are only 7 watts?

 

[Clark W]

Watts are not a measurement of sound pressure levels...

This is true

 

[silky smoove]

This is true

A less snarky response on my part: Watts alone are meaningless. What cab are you driving with said watts, and what is the cab capable of doing with them? Tons of watts into an inefficient cab, or one that will run out of gas before reaching some limit of watts won’t produce as many SPLs as an efficient cab that can handle the power.

 

[Clark W]

A less snarky response on my part: Watts alone are meaningless. What cab are you driving with said watts, and what is the cab capable of doing with them? Tons of watts into an inefficient cab, or one that will run out of gas before reaching some limit of watts won’t produce as many SPLs as an efficient cab that can handle the power.

I didn't take your original comment as being snarky at all. Matter of fact, that comment, as well as others here, are for me, a good reminder that there are so many variables that go into how much sound or volume, that any combination of bass guitar, amplification, and speakers can produce.

Your comment also reminded me what a "watt" really is and how misleading the gear industry can be with, "our amp puts out xxx amount of watts", or "our speaker can handle xxx amounts of watts". Like that is the end all, be all, of what determines who makes the loudest gear.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I think the original bassman was 45 watts or something. You can barely hear the bass in those old recordings. Guitar just travels better. However, with guitar, you get a much richer tone at 100 watts than 20 watts. You can hear it at 20 watts, but it wont have highs mids and lows. Regarding bass, 300 tube watts and a fridge has given me all the headroom I could ever need. I think it has to do with how tubes are rated. The capacity is when the tone starts to break up, but most of us don’t mind a little tube grind so that isn’t really the limit for us.

 

[mmon77]

The myth that will never die. By definition, 1 tube watt = 1 solid state watt. A watt is a watt. As was said, a watt is not a measure of sound pressure levels.

If your amp is capable of 100 watts @ 8Ω or 200 watts @4Ω you could do the following:

1. Run one 8Ω cabinet at 100 watts
2. Run one 4Ω cabinet at 200 watts
3. Run two 8Ω cabinets in parallel (total 4Ω load) at 200 watts

You would notice very little difference (if any at all) in SPL between options 1 and 2, even though you're doubling the wattage. Option 3 would be noticeably louder.

 

[Downunderwonder]

More recycling of recycling

Mostly has to do with the way different amps behave when pushed, but preamp voicing and other variables come into play. A search will net you plenty of reading material - some of it interesting, some of it BS. Pretty much like most of TB

Some of the older threads don't reference good modern class D powered amps (e.g. Mesa Subway, Bergantino, Genzler, Darkglass, etc). Early class D amps were often gutless. Also, you often get what you pay for. Compare the new price of a V4 vs the PF-350 and you'd kinda expect differing performance regardless of specs. Also, manufacturers report specs differently, so while the technical definition of a watt is a thing, how different brands measure and report can be all over the map.

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[The_Owl]

That is recycled from another thread. It could be used almost daily around here.

You put into exact words how I like to describe tube amps. They create harmonic content.

 

[brianrost]

What's going on between tube bass amp wattage and solid state bass amp wattage?
But there is a difference for sure.

But the difference is not in the wattage. People just think it is.

Generate more harmonic distortion, sounds louder. Compress the signal, sounds louder.

 

[OogieWaWa]

Energy dispersion and directionality, too. Step outside a small venue, walk down the street a ways and do you hear the guitar? Nah. But you'll hear the bass half a block away. High frequencies hit stuff (like ears) and stop or bounce into something else and stop, at equal perceived volumes you're having to move ear drums, and the building contents, walls, windows and doors. Oh, and liquifying audience internal organs if you're that kind of band.

(Edit Bonus answer:. It's not the tubes, it's the massive transformers' magnetic fields, they just never get the credit..

 

[jeff62]

Click the thumbnail...this rig makes 1,800W. Epifani UL902C and four Genz Benz 1288T Uber Quads.

View attachment 3354185

Honey, don’t you think arches are so 80’s? I think we should square those off and... OH! How about a built in?

 

[el murdoque]

A watt is 1 joule per second.

Watts are not a measurement of sound pressure levels, so the initial premise is flawed. How much louder is a 60 watt lightbulb than a 50 watt lightbulb? What about LED bulbs that are only 7 watts?

Which leads me to another question that might just shake the foundations of the whole discussion.
SPL are often stated as dB, measured at 1m distance with 1 Watt of power. But what Watt? A tube Watt or a SS Watt?


IMHO a Watt is a Watt no matter what.
A tube amp sits better on most ears when driven hard. The compression is often pleasant.
A 1000W SS amp and a 500W Tube amp will have the same volume when playing at 50 Watts.

 

[DoctorZee]

Well there's no such thing as a quick search on this site. Most of the time I wind up with a bunch of threads that are posted in the For Sale section.

Yes, there is. You just don’t know how to use it. There’s an “advanced search” where you can specify what forum(s) to search in, limit it to thread titles only, etc.

 

[McFarlin]

Is there a difference in how loud a tube watt is vs a solid state watt?

Or....

Why is it a guitar player can bring a 30 watt single 12 combo up on stage, barely turn up the volume and be loud as heck vs a bass rig?

I guess what I'm asking is what is going on between not only tube vs solid state, but even more so between guitar vs bass heads as far as loudness?

Why does a bass player need a 300 watt head when a guitar player can get by with only a 100 watt head? Does the frequency spectrum the instruments cover have a hand in this?

Our ears are much more sensitive in the 2-4K Hz range where guitar cabs usually operate.

 

[Wesley R]

1. The IEEE did a tube/solid state white paper that does an excellent job of discussing this.
2. As stated earlier people tend to think of watts as volume.
3. I have often said a watt is a watt until marketing gets a hold of it.
4. I am an old guy that needs to alter my thinking. When I see or hear an amp is 300watts, I immediately reference a two cabinet SVT. It is obvious of course that my reference point is filled with flaws.
5. Watts are way cheap now compared to 40 or 50 years ago.

 

[Spectre Gunner]

Don't tube amps generally produce a higher current compared to solid state amps? The tube power vs SS power conundrum has been around as long as tube and SS amps have been in existence (1950's perhaps ?).

Apparently, there is more to amplifier power than just WATTS. CURRENT and RESISTANCE is also part of the equation. And then there is speaker efficiency which is a critical component to creating SPL. All of this has to has to be considered when pairing speakers to a SS or tube amp. A well made tube amp with hefty power transformers can produce high-current which has a lot to do with how a tube amp can produce significant power in relation to it's wattage rating.

As far as guitar amps vs bass amps go; Lower frequencies have to push much more air than higher frequencies and that it why bass instruments need more power.

 

[mmon77]

Don't tube amps generally produce a higher current compared to solid state amps? The tube power vs SS power conundrum has been around as long as tube and SS amps have been in existence (1950's perhaps ?)

No. Ohms law. Any 100 watt amp driving a cabinet rated at a given ohm load, say 8Ω, has to produce the same amount of voltage and current. Actually, it has to be capable of producing the voltage and current at full power.

Tube amps internally run at much higher voltages than solid state amps though. Maybe that's what you were thinking?

 

[primusfan1989]

Is there a difference in how loud a tube watt is vs a solid state watt?

No, a lot of manufactures fudge their power ratings. A watt is a watt.

Does the frequency spectrum the instruments cover have a hand in this?

Yes because physics

 

[ctmullins]

This thread is combining two different concepts/questions:

1. Tube watts vs Solid State watts
2. Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia

I’m not touching the first one; it’s been done to death already.

The second one helps explain why bassists need more power than guitarists. In order to be perceived as comparably loud to the average listener, we have to put out ten to twenty more deciBels of sound than they do. This means that the drivers in our cabs have to be designed differently, which tends to reduce their efficiency somewhat, which means we need even more amplifier power to drive them to that dB level.

Amps don’t make sound. Nobody ever danced to a watt. Your audience is grooving on the deciBels that you produce, not the watts. This is why I feel the cab (or FOH) is more important than the wattage of the amp.

 

[bassinflorida]

This thread is combining two different concepts/questions:

1. Tube watts vs Solid State watts
2. Equal-loudness contour - Wikipedia

I’m not touching the first one; it’s been done to death already.

The second one helps explain why bassists need more power than guitarists. In order to be perceived as comparably loud to the average listener, we have to put out ten to twenty more deciBels of sound than they do. This means that the drivers in our cabs have to be designed differently, which tends to reduce their efficiency somewhat, which means we need even more amplifier power to drive them to that dB level.

Amps don’t make sound. Nobody ever danced to a watt. Your audience is grooving on the deciBels that you produce, not the watts. This is why I feel the cab (or FOH) is more important than the wattage of the amp.

"Nobody ever danced to a watt."
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