Tuner mass- will ultralites change the tone?

[vindibona1]

I've got a 2010 MIM Fender Jazz 5. Fit, finish and looks and feel meets or excedes anything has to offer at pretty much any price level. It will get a pickup upgrade later in the week and already has an Audere Pro Z preamp.

Other than being generally on the heavy side, it has a slight amount of neck dive. I've done my research and the only ultralights that seem to work with the 18mm tuner post holes are Hipshot Ultralight 1/2" with .700 bushings [but open to alternatives]. Even so, the 4 existing mounting holes on the back will be ugly unless filled, sanded and refinished. I suppose I could live with that.

But as I was contemplating ordering the Hipshot tuners a thought crossed my mind: What will lightening the headstock do to the tone? In the guitar world I know that the Stratocasters with lighter split shaft tuners almost automatically have a more vintage, lighter sound than Fender's now standard tuners or heavier locking tuners. I know that clamping a heavy capo onto the headstock of my acoustic changes the body of it's tone.

So again... What might I expect should I choose to put ultralight tuners on?

 

[guts]

Every change you make to an instrument probably changes the tone a bit, but most changes you could make aren't audible.

It's not like an acoustic guitar where you're relying on the vibration of the instrument to directly produce the sound, and even then some things can be changed without producing an audible change in the sound.

The main things are the pickups, the neck and the strings. Everything else is such a small change, but they do add up to the overall sound of the instrument. You just probably won't hear a difference if you change just one of them.

And even then you can definitely get more of a difference even than changing the neck, the pickups and the strings all at once by turning a knob on you amp. So I wouldn't worry about what my tuners are contributing to my tone. I would change them if I wanted to and if I didn't like how they sounded, which would be super unlikely since it's a tiny change, I would adjust my amp.

 

[vindibona1]

Every change you make to an instrument probably changes the tone a bit, but most changes you could make aren't audible.

It's not like an acoustic guitar where you're relying on the vibration of the instrument to directly produce the sound, and even then some things can be changed without producing an audible change in the sound.

The main things are the pickups, the neck and the strings. Everything else is such a small change, but they do add up to the overall sound of the instrument. You just probably won't hear a difference if you change just one of them.

I'm not sure I agree entirely. Of course pickups and amp setting make a difference as do strings. However, if the Fender bass has any similarity to the Fender Strat, I can tell you unequivically that going to lighter tuners on a Strat will make a significant change in the guitar's character. It's now the mass at the headstock affects the tonal nodes. One wouldn't think it would be that significant, but it is. Not so sure, that because of the extra mass of the bass, that it would bass it would be as significant. However, the Fender Elite jazz basses come with ultralight tuners. Schaller ultralights w/ Fender logo?

But again... Quite limited to ultralite selections unless someone can points me to a bushing that can take a 3/8" post to and 18mm hole. Anyone?

 

[guts]

If you're certain that you can clearly hear a change in a strat, then I imagine that you would also be able to hear some difference on your jazz. The overtones that would be affected by changes in the resonance of the headstock are more prominent the lower the note you try to play, just because the ratio of the volume of the fundamental to the volume of the overtones gets smaller as the note gets lower. But again, I doubt it would pose any kind of problem that couldn't be solved by turning a couple knobs. I don't think you would suddenly hate how your bass sounds because you put lighter tuners on it.

But good luck in your search for higher mass tuners for your bass.

 

[silky smoove]

Anecdotally: I replaced a set of Gotoh tuners (regular weight, not light) with a set of Hipshot Ultralights and the sound of the bass in question did not change in any perceptible way, but it certainly feels a tiny bit lighter. The sample size of one and anything but scientific testing conditions translate to this meaning next to nothing. I will say definitely that Hipshot Ultralight tuners are well built and have a gear ratio that's sufficient for use with a bass guitar, so they're going on all of my builds until I find a tuner I like better.

 

[vindibona1]

Anecdotally: I replaced a set of Gotoh tuners (regular weight, not light) with a set of Hipshot Ultralights and the sound of the bass in question did not change in any perceptible way, but it certainly feels a tiny bit lighter...I will say definitely that Hipshot Ultralight tuners are well built and have a gear ratio that's sufficient for use with a bass guitar, so they're going on all of my builds until I find a tuner I like better.

A tiny bit lighter isn't what I'm hoping for- but looking for something described as modest weight savings. I have a bit of neck dive, but isn't terrible. It's just that the friction of the strap keeps the bass in place, but pulls on my sore shoulder a bit more than I'd like. Of course Hipshot tuners are well made. I have a Hipshot Drop-D Extender on my Squier VM and find it to be only somewhat better in quality with zero difference in function.

If I'm not going to save enough weight to take much if any pressure off my shoulder and the tuning stability can't be improved, then it doesn't seem worth it to leave 16 ugly empty screw holes where the old pickups were mounted.

Thanks for speaking up. You may have saved me from myself.

 

[silky smoove]

A tiny bit lighter isn't what I'm hoping for- but looking for something described as modest weight savings.

Your definition of what's tiny and what's modest will be tough for anyone else to discern. You could easily do the math to figure out what the actual weight savings will be. In my case, the bass went from having Gotoh GB7 tuners to having Hipshot Ultralights, both of which had the smaller diameter shaft and Y shaped keys. I don't recall what the actual weight savings was for just the tuner, but when combined with the switch from a Gotoh 206 bridge to a Babicz FCH-4 the combined savings (bridge and tuners) added up to less than a pound. Something like 0.6-0.7lbs if memory serves, with the bridge being most of the savings.