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Tuning down half a step - what's the point?

#21
seanm said:
Maybe it is my sax background, but I love flat keys. Listen to almost anything that is in Bb, then move it to B. Bb is a great key, but B is the thinnest sounding of all keys.

Guitar players these days can't play flat keys, so they need to tune down. I would prefer they did over bringing everything up a semi-tone. But that is just me.
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this is entirely false bro ...sorry, been singing lead and backup in bands for years ....a 1/2 step on a whole set is huge ..but yes the break is mostly noticed on tough tunes and can cause some lower tunes to have less power in the low range.

this is why country artist use capos and odd guitar keys so often...cause they are trying to find the 'perfect" key for the voice....

now if your band writes tunes in Eb tuning and the singer still pushes himself hard then he's got a rough road ...

but a whole set that is normally mostly in standard down in Eb ....big relief on the voice!
 
#22
i used to think that tuning down a half step only helped singers on the top notes, but then i had a lightbulb moment and realized that every note sang is a half step lower... huge difference for a singer.
i like the sound of the flat keys myself and since i have perfect pitch, this is instantly noticable to me.
 
#23
Hendrix, SRV, & Warren Haynes/Gov't Mule are 3 I can think of off the top of my head that tuned to Eb. IIRC Mule uses both and switches instruments between songs live. Listening to Hendrix, a lot of times he was actually almost halfway between! In many cases their songs can sound just as good in standard, although there is something to be said about the "darker" tone you get tuned down 1/2 step.

My old band only tuned to standard(except the one guitard which is a whole 'nother story!), we played "Cold Shot" & "Hey Joe" and they sounded just fine.

At home I have my P-basses tuned standard, my MIA Jazz "slack tuned"(Eb), and my crappy Squier which I never play is tuned down a whole step(D).
 
#24
This is why I have a 5 string bass as wel las 4. The "purist" in me loves standard, but when and if a singer or guitarists chooses to tune flat, the 5 er more than compensates.

I love music tuned standard and I love electric blues which may be a 1/2 or whole step flat; used to bug me with Hendrix, as I had no LOW D string ...LOL... SRV emulators couldn't play heavy strings in standard; must tune "flat" for THAT TONE.

My '99 Fender Precision..tune it and forget it..stays in tune within cents for months, so it stays standard.
My 2 cents...z...
 
#26
Sleeping Giant said:
Does anybody know a real valid reason for it? Is it just so the guitarist can have slightly looser strings to make it easier for his solos?
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Yes, sometimes. A guitarist can use lighter gauge strings to make solos easier. However, some guitarists want the tone of thicker strings.

The typical reasons that any cover songs are played Eb/Ab/Db/Gb/Bb/Eb on a guitar:
1) That's how the original song is played
2) The singer prefers half-step down
 
#27
bikeplate said:
HI

Lots of popular bands past and present tune down a half step. 30 years and you hadnt run into this? Really? Ever play SRV, Van Halen, 80s Metal?, etc

Rob
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ghostsontheroad said:
this is an old argument...Hendrix did it...that's a good enough reason for me. some of my bands have done it and some haven't. not really a big deal.
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+1 - Surprised many of you don't seem to be hip to this reality.


DBCrocky said:
Drop tuning is also useful for playing with horn sections, who usually prefer Eb and Bb...
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Usually true, but funny story: this horn player a buddy knows is used to playing with rock bands, he never really did high school band, just learned to rock the tenor sax with rock bands. So he's most comfortable in "normal" rock keys- E, A, G, D, and C.

He's sitting it with some hot blues rock band, and the leader is calling all of these flat keys all night, Bb, Eb, Ab, etc, just killing this horn player. At the end of the set the horn player asks the leader if they really do those songs in all of those flat keys, and the leader says heck no, I was calling those keys to make it easier for you! :D

So I suppose the moral of the story is don't assume that a given horn player actually finds flat keys easier, it depends on their personal experience, and the player's familiarity with certain keys trumps the design of the instrument.
 
#29
my band does it for the vocals and at my request.

My drummer and lead guitar do vocals too and were against it at first, but finally came around and are happy with it. many of the songs I sing lead on (hair band stuff) were recorded in Eb. Whether I'm singing lead on hair band stuff or having to hit some high harmonies while singing backup, it makes it easier for me. But in the end, they have found it easier for their vocals as well and musically makes no difference for the crowd.
 
#30
tuning.jpg
 
#32
Jarrett has hit the nail on the head!! I think the real reason is that when the guitarist plays an open chord, he can get a flat chord instead e.g. open chord E becomes Eb, open chord D become Db. Otherwise if playing in standard tuning, the Eb bar chord for a guitarist becomes a lot higher sounding. If u r playing a 5 string bass, tuning down a half-step doesn't make any sense to me (unless you are trying to hit a low Bb!). If you r playing a 4 string, I reckon that the Db on the E string will still sound close to the open Db (if tuned down a half step) although purists may beg to differ. The only problem would be if the band keeps wanting u to play a low Eb (with an open string), then perhaps a Hipshot D-Tuner may come in handy (or a Kubicki bass).
 
#36
joebar said:
i used to think that tuning down a half step only helped singers on the top notes, but then i had a lightbulb moment and realized that every note sang is a half step lower... huge difference for a singer.
i like the sound of the flat keys myself and since i have perfect pitch, this is instantly noticable to me.
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It's NOT a huge difference for the singer for every note to be sung a half-step lower. It doesn't make logical sense. It only makes a difference if, in a particular song, the highest notes of the song are just at the edge of the singer's range. Shiftig a song down half a step doesn't loosen tension on vocal chords like it does on instrument strings.
 
#37
lunarpollen said:
It's NOT a huge difference for the singer for every note to be sung a half-step lower. It doesn't make logical sense. It only makes a difference if, in a particular song, the highest notes of the song are just at the edge of the singer's range. Shifting a song down half a step doesn't loosen tension on vocal chords like it does on instrument strings.
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This.

The main reason bands tune down to Eb is the guitarist wants to put on thicker strings (to retain tone and output) and/or make bends and slurs easier.

No competent vocalist is going to be suddenly unshackled and sing better because the tune has been shifted a mere half step, unless, like lunar pollen said, they were at the absolute end of their range in standard tuning. Which is a most rare scenario indeed.
 
#38
HolmeBass said:
Usually true, but funny story: this horn player a buddy knows is used to playing with rock bands, he never really did high school band, just learned to rock the tenor sax with rock bands. So he's most comfortable in "normal" rock keys- E, A, G, D, and C.

He's sitting it with some hot blues rock band, and the leader is calling all of these flat keys all night, Bb, Eb, Ab, etc, just killing this horn player. At the end of the set the horn player asks the leader if they really do those songs in all of those flat keys, and the leader says heck no, I was calling those keys to make it easier for you! :D

So I suppose the moral of the story is don't assume that a given horn player actually finds flat keys easier, it depends on their personal experience, and the player's familiarity with certain keys trumps the design of the instrument.
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+1 I've been playing trumpet for years and many of those at blues jams or in soul/blues horn sections. If the band is in E I play in F# which messed me up at first. Then I realized that its all just a combination of fingerings....so what if there are 7 sharps. After that I just went with it and am much more comfortable in E, G and A than Bb

To the OP I always thought guitarists tuned down so they could play with heavier strings and get that SRV tone.
 
#40
The whole "half step tune down" deal has always baffled me. Who started it? Why? And why just a half step? Wouldn't a whole step be better?

List of nonsensical reasons:
Guitar player wants to use heavier strings? Man up, my strings are twice as thick and I don't need to tune down to play them.
Famous artist x did/does it? They probably also do/did speed balls and I'm not interested in that either
Easier to sing when tuned half step down? That makes no sense whatsoever. Can't sing in that key? We change keys, not tuning.

I've yet to hear a legitimate excuse on this one.
 

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