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Double Bass Turning the page?

T

tornadobass

Guest
Nov 20, 2000
1,741
113
#1
I'm playing a chamber orchestra performance of Vivaldi's Gloria and my part is 12 pages long, in a booklet form. Several pieces go onto a second page without a break in the notes.

How do you manage page turns that lose the minimum playing time?

Sometimes, I put my bow in the left hand, turn the page with the right, put the bow back in the right hand and resume playing...which loses several bars.

The alternative is to dangle the bow by my right pinkie and turn the page, then re-grip the bow and resume playing.

Is there an easier way when I'm the only bass?
 
#2
I played a relentless vivaldi piece last month and was in a similar position. In the end, I made copies of the whole part, taped them together and folded them accordian style. I decided to work with 4 pages open at a time to minimize turns; just attach some sort of colored tape or sticky note on the edge of the page you want to turn from and fold out the next four pages on your stand. If you can, position your stand so you can reach over with your left hand to turn the page quicker.
 
#3
This is a challenge you'll face a lot if you are the only bassist. So, it's best to prepare for it.

Stand Outs music stand extenders are a great investment. They slip on the ends of a Manhasset stand. (A folding leg Manhasset is also a great investment. (I don't separate the desk from the legs when transporting though. I tightened the nut that attaches the desk so that is stays on attached. When folded, I turn the desk upside down then slip the folded legs through a hand loop on my bass bag with the desk next to the bag. This way it won't unfold and I don't have to carry it separately.)) Once you buy it you'll have it forever.

The Stand Outs will give you a 36" wide desk to hold four pages of music. The bottom part is a bit wider too and holds a coffee cup rather well. Oh yeah, and a metronome/tuner can be on your stand next to your music when practicing.

Next, it's a good idea to preview what you are playing before the first rehearsal to look for bad page turns and photocopy what you need. These need to be taped to the original part so you don't have pages flying off when you need them most! (I learned the hard way.) You may need to cut down the photocopied sheet as well. If you are playing in a section, the other players will appreciate it if you make extra copies. Oh yeah, carry scotch tape in your gig bag, you never know when you'll need it.

If it's one of those parts with a cello and bass part on separate staffs, I occasionally photocopy the whole thing then cut out the cello part and tape down the bass only lines then photocopy that. This make a bass-only part. Doing this reduced the 7 page Beethoven Coriolanus Overture with running eighths over the page turns into a 4 page part I just spread out on my stand with no turns. I made a cello-only part while I was at it and it was really appreciated by the players of the cello section.

Also, it's a good idea to learn to turn the page with just the tip of you bow. Dog ear the bottom corner of the first page, then on the next page make a dog ear about 3 inches up so there is a bump sticking up from the next page where you can catch the page with the tip. The corner of the second page shouldn't be sticking up though. The third page has a dog ear at the bottom corner, the fourth page has a bump about 3 inches up and etc. (hmm, hard to explain with text.) On a good night I can turn the page in two beats. Usually it takes 3- 5 beats.

Turning the page with just the tip is faster, it reduces the number of steps to turn the page, you don't have to lean over/ get off your stool and you lessen the possibility of dropping your bow.
 
#4
This can be especially tough when playing new music which hasn't been professionally printed. A lot of composers and copyists just click on the the "print parts" icon and think they're done. In addition to the sticky tape, a scissors and glue stick are worthwile items to have at rehearsal. I personally don't like having more than two pages open on the stand, especially if I'm sharing, but I will do lots of copying, cutting and pasting to avoid missing notes. I was on a show once where there were simply no breaks anywhere, and the copyist was a feminine hygiene product, so I basically had to completely build the part myself. There was one place where I reduced eight pages to 25% and taped them all together into two! You just do what you gotta do...
 
#6
I saw a neat little item that turned the pages for you. I'll have to see if I can find that. You may be aware of this, and it might not meet your needs, but I thought it rather clever.

It worked, I think, as might a metronome, in a clockwork fashion, set to turn pages after X numbers of bars. A little "finger" with a suitably sticky attachment at its end deftly turn the pages. Now I'm more curious myself as to how it works.
 
#7
I'll occasionally jot the next couple measures at the bottom of the page if there are open strings or rests coming up not too long after that.

I sometimes play with a guy who has either a well-developed or photographic memory. We usually play separate stands, and while the rest of us are fumbling with our page turns, he breezes along without turning at all until maybe halfway down the next page or whenever its more convenient to turn.
 
#8
Band Dad said:
I saw a neat little item that turned the pages for you. I'll have to see if I can find that. You may be aware of this, and it might not meet your needs, but I thought it rather clever.

It worked, I think, as might a metronome, in a clockwork fashion, set to turn pages after X numbers of bars. A little "finger" with a suitably sticky attachment at its end deftly turn the pages. Now I'm more curious myself as to how it works.
Click to expand...

I'd be afraid some troublemaker that knows I'm using the auto-page-turner might sneak over and adjust the thing to start turning pages every 4 beats while I'm not looking.
 
#9
..I usually copy the first bars of the next page in the precedent page at the bottom of the sheet, in order to turn the page when there is a break..
Or you can do a photocopy of the "missing" bars" of the following page and stick the part of the sheet you need at the bottom of your page..
Or learn by heart the "missing bars".
Good luck!
 
#10
Of course this problem will be overcome soon with technology. I've seen performances where the musicians read from flatscreen monitors and had a foot pedal to scroll or turn pages. I have been seeing digital TFT photo frames like this, or Epaper devices like Kindl which, if someone built a foot pedal remote, would solve the problem entirely. It would also be way cool for the orchestra if the librarian could prepare all of the parts on his laptop and simply Bluetooth them to the stands with bowings, etc. already marked!
 
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#11
Thanks for all the good ideas. I still haven't found a solution, though.

I was given back-to-back pages that could only be assembled as a booklet. None of the pieces have rests near the page breaks and none have open strings in that vicinity. In addition, I play almost the full time in every piece except one. I wonder if the cellist came up with a solution, since it's a doubled part, with cello/bass in octave unison.

I should add that since it's unison, I'm simplifying the bass part in some spots where there are octave jumps that require a double string crossing or tight articulation at a quick tempo. Is that something common to do? The musical director told me this was okay from his perspective.
 
#12
I can understand the temptation to simplify the part, but you should play as much as you possibly can. The only thing you probably shouldn't worry about is double stops in your lower strings\position because they will sound muddy anyway if the cello already has it. Quick octave jumps over a couple strings are common, especially in parts where you're doubling the cello; and learning to make that movement is a really good skill to have. As far as articulation goes, make sure you're not doing anything thats going to muddy up\cover up whatever the cello's are doing. You might inadvertently make it sound like they're not playing it right.

Thats essentially what I was told at my first couple orchestra gigs by a very experienced player. It took some extra practice on my part to get those gestures down but it's really worth it once you can do it.
 
#13
Yes, speaking of gestures flanning, tou might like to notice that there are some nice ones being made the "Off Topic" forum.;)

On topic.....isn't there a device akin to "kindle" that could perform the page turning task via a footswitch?:D
 
#14
if you photocopy the part completely and bind it you can cut a page horizontallly in two where the music has rests in it. Consider a right page full of notes with a rest in the middle somewhere and on the following page a few bars rest half way down the page. This means that copying the top of the second page is going to take up too much space so you have to cut. But how?

Cut the page so that the passage up to the rests is on the top part and the remainder is on the bottom part. This might involve a bit of zig zaging if the remainder starts on the same lie as the rests.

Now when you're playing you can turn the top half of the page before you start the passage and then turn the bottom half during the rests.

you may find you need to cut the page twice and turn three time in total but that should be a rare occurance. This is a great help for ensembles where you are the only bassist!

A story about a gig I did for a fashion show with a live orchestra.

In greek the word for 'turn' can also mean 'turn your head'. I was playing co principal and the 1st player and I were having a great time drooling at all the gorgeous models. Suddenly he started whispering nevously 'Turn! Turn!' I turned round frantically trying to see which model he was refering to, but I couldn't see anything so spectacular. Then I realised he meant 'turn the page!' We almost missed the entry at the top of the next page!

Keep your mind on the job, man!

FC
 
#15
Trying to memorize ahead works for me sometimes, and I find I listen better when I'm not looking at the music. Plus, conductors love it when you stare them down.

Maybe you can coordinate with the other bassist(s) so that one cuts out and turns a page early, and one on time, so that there at least isn't a break in sound? It's not perfect, but what is...
 
#16
It turned out that the bass doubled the cello part and my score was a copy while the cellist's was the original.

Fortunately, that meant that our page breaks were opposite of each other...when he turned the page, I read across a page, and vice-versa.
 
#18
For fast octave string crossings turn the bowing around so that the lower note is played up bow. As you jump across the strings the bow is pushed down into the strings , particularly if you play near the balance point of the bow (ah, that magic place!!) and use very little bow length.

Try the bowing each way. Down bow on the lower note will throw the bow away from the strings as you cross at speed. Up bow will stick it down. To get the bowing back "on track" after the octave passages is relatively easy.

Cheers.....

DP
 

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