Uber bassists- I don't get it.

[TH63]

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

You nailed it dude

 

[dr doofie]

I prefer the old-school hitchhiker bassists, who just use their thumb.

I prefer the thumb rest personally

 

[BigBadBen67]

I think it all comes down to musicality. Can the bass be played with virtuosity and sound wonderful? Sure. Jaco.

Can hyperfingered bass players just sound self indulgent? Absolutely. But the problem isn't that they are trying to be virtuosos. The problem is they're doing it badly.

 

[dr doofie]

I think basses should be remanufactured to legally only have one string and one pickup so as to level the playing field. All this variety and choice needs to go...

 

[Needsalilmore]

Let's start with Phil Lesh's solo album, Seastones. Always keeping the music first...really?

As far as Manring, Wooten, etc.: have you actually seen them play live? YouTube is often all about promoting me me me, mine mine mine.

I saw Phil Lesh live, 3 weeks ago, and I can assure you that he's keeping the music first. A net worth of 40 million $, age 79, on his second liver, touring around with his son. He was in the corner, modest as can be, playing that beautiful 6 string bass that must have the most narrow string spacing I've ever seen.

 

[Ben Bass63]

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

It's just circus, finger-acrobatic on a bass good for $$ promoting (allways a very expensive) bass. I 100% agree that for a real/serious bassplayer in a band, these people vids are uselless. Just nice for the wanna-be bass players.

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

 

[brianjfox]

Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.

Those people are endorsed BY Fodera. Specifically because they are great instrumentalists, AND musicians. I, for one, believe that the bass is a beautiful instrument, in all of it's forms. I play 5 and 6-string, and get asked to solo a lot. I like doing that, and I like playing a big fat low D half-note, slightly muted. I like the sounds of the bass. I also study music, and like the intellectual stimulation that comes from appreciating and understanding harmonic and rhythmic complexity. When I hear something I like, I immediately try to find out what happened technically in order to understand the mechanics of emotionally stimulating sounds.

I love the sound of the bass, and I love the way Wooten plays. And the way Hadrien Feraud plays. And the way Alain Caron plays. And the way Buster Williams plays. And Evan Marien, and, most likely, you. Fast playing or not.

 

[lostark98]

All the bassists you mentioned above all play and can play simple even though they have chops galore. Wooten's got tons of tunes where he's just supporting.

And Victor also creates many tunes using the bass. His philosophy that the electric bass can be a lead instrument puts it right up there with the electric guitar in my view.

 

[TheDirtyLowDown]

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

I hear you. If I don't leave any concert humming a melody, and returning to it in my head again and again, that's an important sign, I think.

To be clear: Like you I admire their proficiency, and I wish I had even a fraction of their chops, but perhaps they don't always deploy their tremendous skills in the best service of the music. But hey, that's a problem I'd LOVE to have .

This discussion makes me think of Paganini... A couple hundred years ago, Niccolò Paganini was the be-all, end-all violin virtuoso. Amazing musicianship, made women and men swoon, there were legends that he had sold his soul to the devil, etc. The story goes that he would play a virtuoso piece, and intentionally break a string in the middle of it and keep playing, and then break another, and keep playing and so on. The crowds went wild.

It's that kind of spectacle that says "Here is undeniable talent." And that has its place in musicianship, and always has. But when it becomes the focus, or when it intrudes on the music something important is lost. I admire virtuosity, but I love musicality more.

 

[brianjfox]

In my opinion, dislike is a better word choice than hate.
Hate is a sharp pointed hurtful thing to throw out there. You should really mean it, if you're going to use it.

I hate sushi.

I can't like this post, because I love sushi. Dammit!

 

[Joejobass]

I know what you mean. Virtuosity is great, but you have to use your power for good. As Chuck Berry said, "unless they try to play it too darn fast and change the beauty of the melody..."

 

[manfish]

The give a way is "play a song". A song is a structure that is not ubiquitous to all music. The question is by someone who has no concept of music outside of a very narrow idea as to what music is.

It is often outside players who bring ideas that make their way into the mainstream. Terry O'Riley is a avant garde classical composer. I am sure the OP would find his music unsong like. The Who on Who's Next - Baba O'Riley - the front end of that song is O'Riley. Aladdin Insane - Bowie - where does that crazy piano playing come from...

Typo its Terry "Riley". A pioneer of the Minimalism 1960s movement of "serious" composition. Other key (and better known) exponents include Philip Glass and Steve Reich. Terry also crosses over into psychedelic rock territory. Phil Glass did an orchestral retake on Bowie's Berlin period.

 

[Dave Warminger]

Oh Paula you`ve gone ahead and said what I`ve been thinking for years you`ll never make a politician with that honesty. Yes i only love these people when they are in the context of a song JPJ (Zep) Wooton (Bella Flek) Rainey (Steeley Dan) Wilkenfeld (Jeff Beck) which brings me to my next point, why the hell do I LOVE guitarists, drums keyboards and singers soloing but not bassists......hmmm

 

[Stan Haldane]

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

Oh yes.

 

[JZQuantum]

I get the OPs message, but super-elite players are just as happy playing Papa was a Rolling Stone- type basslines as they are doing double thumping, tapping and super fast chordals.

Heck I can't even come close to playing fast but I still appreciate the folks that do.

 

[BradshawC]

Am I the only one who finds the quote "virtuosos" boring and just plain wanking? Michael Manring, Les Claypool, Stanley Clark, Alain Caron, Just about anybody who endorses Fodera, including Victor Wooten and many others.
I admire their proficiency, and technique, but then say to myself 'Now play a song'.
There are highly adept players I love- Phil Lesh, Chris Squire, etc. that CAN play that stuff, but somehow always keep the music first. I NEVER thought that John Entwhistle was wanking, no matter how fast he was playing. Mark King is about the only guy who ever slapped a bass that I could listen to a whole song.
I'm not saying everyone should play bass like Chris Hillman, or Timothy Schmitt, there's lots of room for advancing the art, but most hi-tech players sound like they are only playing to impress, not drive the song.
Discuss.

Check out Aram Bedrosiam. That dude is by far a real non-wanking virtuoso.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I think basses should be remanufactured to legally only have one string and one pickup so as to level the playing field. All this variety and choice needs to go...

BTDT
Product Information Basses and Guitars (16) - Atlansia Guitars

 

[70s Custom Mod]

For what it's worth, I can remember a couple of bass players (I think Wooten was one of them) express their concern that they might be losing job opportunities because they were such capable solo players and they wanted the prospective employers to know that they could also play the role of a good supportive bass player. And [he] even tried to downplay whatever virtuoso capability he had just to get the job. This was apparently what he thought he needed to do to get hired in some cases.

Interestingly, Wooden was candid in an interview that I saw where he seemed modest in saying that there were some techniques he was not great at, but what he could do he did very well. And this helps create the images that he has.

 

[GretschWretch]

I think it all comes down to musicality. Can the bass be played with virtuosity and sound wonderful? Sure. Jaco.

Can hyperfingered bass players just sound self indulgent? Absolutely. But the problem isn't that they are trying to be virtuosos. The problem is they're doing it badly.

"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly." G. K. Chesterton

 

[7615]

Big Mike Garson fan. "Aladdin Sane" is a beautifully played & recorded piece.
...and I'm sure I hated it when I first bought that LP back in the '70s.
Bowie was lucky to have Garson.

I loved it at the time but was gob smacked at how "outside" it was. Then I listened to Cecil Taylor, Andrew Hill, Mathew Shipp, et... and I realized how easy listening in comparison that solo on Bowie's record is. It is the masters who dare to follow their own voice - that someone calls wanking - or not a song - who opened the doors for so much of what we take for granted in mainstream.