Umanov guitars closing- rant!

[Paulabass]

Music stores have traditionally been part of our social lives. We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.
Small music stores, even the very specialized and high end ones are all in danger!
Matt Uminov's store is closing it's doors after 50 years.
Why?
Because the instrument has stopped being a personalized thing. It is a commodity, to be delivered by the UPS man, after careful perusal of photographs on a website.
I can't even begin to tell you how wrong that is. Buying completely in the dark, and then adapting YOUR music to fit the instrument that FEDEX dropped off while you played video games.
People bitch and moan about how quality is slipping from the big manufactures. Maybe, but more of it is- in the 'old' days, each instrument was checked over, set up, and THEN put on the wall. Missing parts (gibson) and dry fingerboards (fender, and others) where caught, and corrected before any buyer ever even saw the guitar!
Beginners! Search Amazon/GC for hours without ever speaking to the bass player at the music store. Then they buy something entirely wrong for their interests, because it got good amazon reviews. What a dumb ass way to buy a first instrument! Then the kid gives up music from trying to play Metalica on his beetle bass, or bought a fretless cause they look really cool.
We have become complacent. We settle for whatever the big box music store sends us, and we're happy, because we don't know any better. And, we don't care.
I learned so much hanging out at music stores. A lot of the guys I met were touring pros, and were always willing to share. Later, I sold instruments, in stores that cared. We sat down, and demonstrated to the non players, and discussed their dreams and aspirations. We helped parents budget, and talked about lessons.
I will not even go into the number of threads on this site, and others, that start with- it arrived damaged, it arrived needing a set up, it was not as advertised. I'm sorry to point out who the sucker is here!
Matt Uminov's guitars is closing. So are most mom and pop music stores.
There is only ONE person to blame- the one who says 'the FEDEX truck is here, I can start my music career'. Did FEDEX remind you to buy a tuner?
Rant over.

 

[Gorn]

So this store should stay open because of customers who haven't done research?

 

[pacojas]

Music stores have traditionally been part of our social lives. We network, we shoot the poopie, we discuss music stuff with people with more experience than us.
Small music stores, even the very specialized and high end ones are all in danger!
Matt Uminov's store is closing it's doors after 50 years.
Why?
Because the instrument has stopped being a personalized thing. It is a commodity, to be delivered by the UPS man, after careful perusal of photographs on a website.
I can't even begin to tell you how wrong that is. Buying completely in the dark, and then adapting YOUR music to fit the instrument that FEDEX dropped off while you played video games.
People bitch and moan about how quality is slipping from the big manufactures. Maybe, but more of it is- in the 'old' days, each instrument was checked over, set up, and THEN put on the wall. Missing parts (gibson) and dry fingerboards (fender, and others) where caught, and corrected before any buyer ever even saw the guitar!
Beginners! Search Amazon/GC for hours without ever speaking to the bass player at the music store. Then they buy something entirely wrong for their interests, because it got good amazon reviews. What a dumb ass way to buy a first instrument! Then the kid gives up music from trying to play Metalica on his beetle bass, or bought a fretless cause they look really cool.
We have become complacent. We settle for whatever the big box music store sends us, and we're happy, because we don't know any better. And, we don't care.
I learned so much hanging out at music stores. A lot of the guys I met were touring pros, and were always willing to share. Later, I sold instruments, in stores that cared. We sat down, and demonstrated to the non players, and discussed their dreams and aspirations. We helped parents budget, and talked about lessons.
I will not even go into the number of threads on this site, and others, that start with- it arrived damaged, it arrived needing a set up, it was not as advertised. I'm sorry to point out who the sucker is here!
Matt Uminov's guitars is closing. So are most mom and pop music stores.
There is only ONE person to blame- the one who says 'the FEDEX truck is here, I can start my music career'. Did FEDEX remind you to buy a tuner?
Rant over.

when’s the close out sale? do they have a website?

 

[Paulabass]

So this store should stay open because of customers who haven't done research?

Not at all. The new dynamics of music retail is of detriment to everybody. Customers will lose faith in otherwise good products. Mail order Stores don't want a million SKU's, so they will only stock the biggest sellers, and after sale service is gone with the wind. Everybody loses eventually.

 

[Gorn]

Not at all. The new dynamics of music retail is of detriment to everybody. Customers will lose faith in otherwise good products. Mail order Stores don't want a million SKU's, so they will only stock the biggest sellers, and after sale service is gone with the wind. Everybody loses eventually.

I don't buy it. Sure the personal touch isn't what it once was but I have access to any bass I want. If I get a dud then I realize it's because sometimes things go wrong and the large retailer I bought from will make it right. What am I losing out on? Words of wisdom from the guy at the shop? I'll wager there's more misinformation being passed along that way than I can get on my own carefully researching and coming to a conclusion based on various sources. The mom and pop shops are dying and in many ways that's a damn shame. But musicianship will live on.

 

[40Hz]

Unfortunately, my experience with music stores back in the days when music stores were all you had to deal with weren't anywhere near that wonderful an experience. There were small rays of light and exceptions here and there. But for the most part, you were dealing with (to be polite) the moods and personal eccentricities of the store owners, and the "boy's club" atmosphere courtesy of the local pros and monied regulars that hung out in the store. Most female musicians I knew would rather have walked into a strip club on open audition night than cross the threshold of many local music stores. Even Manny's in NYC (which I dearly loved despite the occasional bad vibes you'd have to deal with in there) treated would-be customers differently depending on who and what they thought you were.

I think the biggest difference you're seeing in shopping patterns is a shift in the demographic. There's a documented reluctance on the part of the upcoming generation to engage in anything resembling F2F or personal communication with anyone they don't already know. Based on the number of people here at TB who say they hate to talk on the phone, and prefer email or text to communicate, it's hardly surprising that the more anonymous and depersonalized a shopping experience a music retailer offers, the better it is for their business.

 

[MonetBass]

There is a music store here in Tulsa called Saied's Music that has been open for over 71 years. The main location focuses mainly on band & orchestra instruments (renting and selling) and pianos, but they do have a good selection of guitars & basses. I worked there when I first moved to Tulsa, and the combo (guitar) department manager got me the job. He worked at another music store in my hometown. I'll go in there sometimes and just 'shoot the poopie' with him and others. I'll buy some strings and sometimes he'll give me a set, because that's the kind of guy he is. There is another location which is a bit smaller that has a better selection of guitars and basses, but the people working there aren't nearly as knowledgeable or fun to talk to. But that main store won't be closing any time soon.

 

[Gorn]

There is a music store here in Tulsa called Saied's Music that has been open for over 71 years. The main location focuses mainly on band & orchestra instruments (renting and selling) and pianos, but they do have a good selection of guitars & basses. I worked there when I first moved to Tulsa, and the combo (guitar) department manager got me the job. He worked at another music store in my hometown. I'll go in there sometimes and just 'shoot the poopie' with him and others. I'll buy some strings and sometimes he'll give me a set, because that's the kind of guy he is. There is another location which is a bit smaller that has a better selection of guitars and basses, but the people working there aren't nearly as knowledgeable or fun to talk to.

I bet they cornered the local student instrument sale and rental market right? Lots of Bundy and Selmer flutes and saxophones? It's probably the only thing keeping them afloat.

 

[MonetBass]

I bet they cornered the local student instrument sale and rental market right? Lots of Bundy and Selmer flutes and saxophones? It's probably the only thing keeping them afloat.

You nailed it. There is one other store in Tulsa that rents & sells band/orchestra instruments, but Saied's has the better instrument repair techs. When it comes to woodwinds, that's pretty important.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, their print music department is second to none. Many, many music teachers in the Tulsa area get their music there.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

After doing a lot of research on the Internet while shopping for both a J, and a P bass, I went to a local independent shop, and played the floor models they had on hand. I had that shop order two American Deluxe Fender basses for me. I was under no obligation to accept them if for any reason the ones they ordered for me did not satisfy me once they arrived. I did pay state sales tax, but their price was the same as the lowest cost on-line retailer. They offered to perform a no cost setup at some later date if I wanted.

I like to support local businesses whenever possible.

 

[Gorn]

After doing a lot of research on the Internet while shopping for both a J, and a P bass, I went to a local independent shop, and played the floor models they had on hand. I had that shop order two American Deluxe Fender basses for me. I was under no obligation to accept them if for any reason the ones they ordered for me did not satisfy me once they arrived. I did pay state sales tax, but their price was the same as the lowest cost on-line retailer. They offered to perform a no cost setup at some later date if I wanted.

I like to support local businesses whenever possible.

Those sound like unsustainable business practices. Are they still around?

 

[Michael Jewels]

I have been in Matt Umanov 2 or 3 times.

It is a shame that's it's closing, but what can we do.

They had a short interview with Matt Umanov on WPIX news last night, and he is 70, and said business isn't what it used to be.

He's not being forced out, since he owns the building.

Everything is 20% off, and they expect to stay open until early January, 2018.

Mike

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Those sound like unsustainable business practices. Are they still around?

Still in business. Been in business more than 70 years.

Cascio Interstate Music - Our Mission

The sales guy who I bought those two basses from now works for another independent shop, and I have bought a few new, and vintage amps there.

The Cream City Music Story

Both shops sell on-line as well. Excellent customer service at both.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

While I think the fact that small businesses are closing (no matter if they are music stores or not) is very sad, I don't necessarily think that musicians always used to get better deals on instruments back in the day. In fact if something wasn't available online, the store could put whatever the price tag they want on. Most of the online stores have very good return policy, and I think the musician should make a good research before buying and instrument online. That's the beauty of the internet. I remember having good times hanginging out at the stores as well, but also remember being misinformed more. When you go to a music store and ask the person anything about a certain instrument, they go online and read from there anyway.

 

[Thumb n Fingers]

Free markets at work. The overhead and staff salaries of the mom and pop, brick and motar stores just can't compete with the online retailers of the world. For better or worse (it's certainly debatable either way), society has evolved and this is what we've got to deal with now.

One of the beauties of the online music sellers is the free shipping, and no hastle return policy. Consumers like the fact they can buy and receive something without leaving the house, try it out without a pushy salesperson hovering over them, return it without a face to face confrontation about why. Places like Sweetwater made the transition to this easy by having a knowledgeable sales staff that you can call or email with questions. Sweetwater, I believe, banks on the consumer having loyalty because they provide that extra service. I appreciate that, but I think most people will buy where they can get a price down to the last penny saved when they've done their homework.

Additionally now, manufacturers do more and more on social media to promote and educate consumers. There was nothing but magazine ads when I was growing up and getting into music. You didn't learn anything except what (you thought) your idols played. There just wasn't nearly the amount of information that is but a click away now.

@Paulabass , I suspect you're feeling like I was for a while. Apprehensive about buying something so personal online. I get it. It's a hard transition for anyone that hasn't always known things as they are now. The first time I purchased something "just to try it out" that I didn't like and returned it without a hastle, I felt a little guilty. Or more so felt like I should feel apprehensive about returning it. I miss being able to try our dozens of instruments in a single sitting. But I also know what feels right to me now, and can look at specs, what's built into a particular instrument, and make a pretty educated decision as to if I think something is going to be right for me or not. Then there's always that hastle free return if it isn't.

Times have changed. Ways of doing business have changed. We as consumers and musicians change too.

 

[40Hz]

i don't necessarily think that musicians always used to get better deals on instruments back in the day.

Speaking purely for myself I can safely say I can get much better deals on better quality gear than I ever could back in the day.

Both me and my guitarist GF were treated well in one local store we used to frequent back in the 80s. But that was only after we bought a Fender Strat, a Gibson LesPaul Custom, a Fender PB, a Korg M1 synth, a Fender Lead 75 amp, a Gemeinhardt flute, three professional concert level baroque recorders, plus a half dozen less expensive instruments, along with a ton of strings, picks, etc. - and all of it within the space of two years.

But that's what it took back then before most stores would start treating you like a customer they wanted to keep. And even then, being offered 15% off list (and not having to dicker over it) was still considered quite a good deal.

So as far as overall prices and bang for the buck goes, things are a lot better for musicians now. Better IMO than they've ever been.

 

[7bridges]

I bought several guitars from Matt Umanov over the years. Still have at least one of them. Nice place with a great history and a great service team. Kinda sad, I guess. Same with 48th Street, where you could find Manny's, Rudy's and Sam Ash, all within a few feet of each other.

 

[HolmeBass]

when’s the close out sale? do they have a website?

Oh behave!!

 

[ptg]

Better deals or not I do miss the days when I could try several basses and/or amps in a sitting and A/B them.

Now you buy a bass on line...try it at home...it may be good but is this other one better?...pay shipping to return...order and try second bass...sounds good but did the other one feel better? I have no idea since I tried the first one a week and a half ago...repeat...repeat...repeat...

 

[jnuts1]

I need to play an instrument before I buy one. never have or will order one over the google machine. last time I bought a guitar the dude was shocked when I wouldn't take a new one in a box. I played 50 of them for a reason......