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Double Bass Unamplified Volume

S

SpamBot

Dec 25, 2008
1,928
12
St. Paul, MN
#1
I'm going to be playing a couple of songs in the next week or so, with a singer and a guitarist (Playing a flat-top acoustic), and I have found in rehearsal I'm not playing nearly loud enough to be heard from any decent distance away. I need to get more volume out of my bass, and amplification is out of the question, as I don't have a pickup (It'd also be very out of place in this case). Is there any advice for me, especially in the area of right hand technique, to play louder? I'm already playing as hard as I think I probably should be (I'm afraid of tendinitis) so if there are any tricks you guys know of, I'd be very happy if you shared.

By the way, I know there MUST be threads about this subject out there already, I just couldn't find any in a search, probably because this is such a broad subject. However, if you know of any of these threads, and could point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all, Walter
 
#2
You may already be there... Is there any way to possibly record your group from a little distance away? You may be surprised at how well the bass carries... I do an acoustic duo, (sometimes trio, when my son plays percussion), and my bass never seems loud enough to me, but really carries into the room...

I love the total unamplified playing thing, (my roots rock band can go pretty off in the other direction!)... I found the recordings to be pretty helpful in easing my mind...

-robert
 
#3
Thanks for the advice Robert, I have a pocket recorder that has a decent mic in it I could use. I'll try that out, see if I can produce enough volume.

Also, I know playing closer to the bridge gives you a more twangy tone - Do you think that would carry better?

I suppose I can just experiment with the recorder on.......
 
#4
First of all, I'm a duffer at best... By no means an expert! For me, string excursion is the ticket... I use the meaty portion of my index finger, (most of the area between the knuckle and tip), and pluck with my hand loosely positioned towards the end of the fingerboard...

While it's by no means bluegrass, and there is amplification, I find Chris Wood's technique really compelling... This is where I'd like to be someday! he gets great dynamics with hand position and motion...

Invalid Link Removed

-robert
 
#6
Right, I played i a church unamplified last week. On the stage, I thought that the bass sound was not loud enough, but somebody told me that in the back, all he was earring is bass.

On the technical side, the thing i can suggest, if you do not already know, is to let your right arm very relax, absolutely no tension, as if it was dead, an let the weight of your arm do the job. The arm with no tension is very heavy.

Once again, I apologize if my English is not clear.
François
 
#8
The bass player is often in a bad position to hear how the acoustic bass is sitting in the overall sound. I've been amazed at standing back and letting someone else play my bass - admittedly part of the difference in sound may have been due to different playing techniques.

Plucking at the end of the fingerboard does give the bass a more trebly tone with a faster attack, which seems to punch through, especially on faster numbers.

If your having trouble competing with one voice and one guitar, then you must have an unusually quiet bass - I often have to compete with 6 guitars, 4 banjos, and 3 mandolins and a couple of fiddles!!

I assume you've had your set up checked out by a luthier? If you have an adjustable bridge you could try increasing the string height. You could also experiment with string selection.
 
#9
Hello Spam :) .... There have been good suggestions so far. Here are a couple more. I don't see what kind of upright ;) bass you play in your profile. Speaking from my experience on my Kay and Epiphone American plywoodys playing various acoustic bluegrass in jams and at free shows for elderly folks at rest and nursing homes .... Sometimes the bass sounds quiet when I'm playing it but my digital recorder out in the room says different :D .

1) Good meaty / weighty right hand technique and plucking location does make a difference as does clean, tight noting with the left hand fingertips (this all assumes you are right-handed of course).
2) Minimize body contact with the bass ..... knee and thigh contact with front or back and belly contact with the side.
3) Don't leave a clip-on electronic tuner on the bridge or cushy-foam / rolled-up towel behind the tailpiece when you play. Let the bass and all the parts vibrate as freely as possible.
4) Position yourself so that you aren't muffled or shielded by players in front of you. Maybe back yourself somewhat into a corner to get the natural amplification of the room walls.
5) As far as bass hardware and set-up issues go ....
6) Try low-tension strings that are set fairly high off the fingerboard. Usually more string height leads to more volume but not so high that it makes the bass hard to play and kills your left hand. I've have good luck with various mixes of Innovation Super Silvers, quality Gamut guts, Swiss Velvet Garbos and Animas with the G string at 9 to 10 mm up to E at 12 to 13.
7) A lightweight drumstick endpin to replace a long, heavy metal pin as well as a light aircraft cable / high-strength cord to replace a heavy stiff wire tailpiece "tailgut" can help a lot.
8) Well-fit and properly-placed bridge feet and soundpost are important. See a good luthier if you think these may be issues.
9) Esoteric luthier techniques like string afterlength tuning and a light-weight mode-matched tailpiece can also help.

I believe "Bass Bob" over at BlueGrass Bass Place is from Many Apples Minnesota :D . Even though he is not an Official Luthier, he has a great deal of experience with all-kinds of basses. You might contact him ..... Here's his band .... Link Removed . I will PM you his e-mail address.

Good Luck :bassist: !

P.S. Search the Basses Forum with keyword "volume" .... Lots to read including this one http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319120 .
 
#11
I second Bob's idea above about the location of your bass with respect to nearby walls and corners (if any at the venue you're playing). In some places it's amazing how moving the bass a couple feet either way can increase or decrease the volume noticeably. It must be something in the way the sound waves from the bass are reinforced or canceled by reflected waves from the walls.

Maybe you can have a bandmate stand out in the audience area while you try different positions -- forward, back, left, right -- and see if he/she can hear any louder places?

Also sometimes to pull a bigger tone it helps to make sure you are involving the shoulder muscles of the picking hand, not just the fingers and hand. If you are using the meaty part of the picking finger(s) as people have suggested, this shoulder idea helps get the most out of that.

Good luck!
Pete
 
#12
Here's a bit of advice from an old jazz person. :eek:
Using the term "plucking" may be a bit confusing.
The right hand and finger(s) should/may be doing the opposite to pull out the maximum volume of your pizz playing.
Have/do, you clip the webbing between your thumb and index finger on and inside the edge of your fingerboard?......(an anchoring kind of position). As others have said, get as much meat into the string as possible, including the side of your index finger for starters. Try squeezing the tone out by playing INTO the board. If you do this right, you can actually hear your finger passing THROUGH the string and popping on the board. (kind of like a period at the end of a sentence).
You can do this same motion with any of your fingers and not anchor your thumb around the board if you like. This is very common, almost a must in serious pizz playing.
Getting excited about what you're doing can have a huge physical and emotional effect on your playing.....your muscles respond to that. (Being excited AND relaxed is a whole nother topic).
Simply put.....Kick some ass = having fun.
Having fun = relaxing.
PS. SpamBot...Please stop being "afraid" of tendonitis. (or anything, for that matter). It will show in your work. IMO, too many bass players in this community are more concerned about hurting themselves than they are about just playing the godamm bass. (IMHO). Godamm it.......
 
#15
Have you explored any basic slap techniques? A lot of bluegrass players record using standard pizz technique, but when they play acoustically go to a more unanchored single slap to help them project in the room. something along these lines: . When I play acoustic bluegrass, I do something similar to that motion.
At a certain point be heard in a room acoustically has to do a lot with how quiet the audience is and what the acoustics of the room are. And of course how loud the stupid banjo or drummers are being. Listen to your body, a good heavy relaxed arm will project more than a stressed, stiff arm and hand.
 
#16
Turn that instrument into the wall! Ouila! Instant natural amplification. Chester Zardis did this for 20 -odd years at the raucus Preservation Hall in NOLA, where he was competing with piano, banjo, trombone, trumpet, clarinet night after night.....they didn't call him the "Little Bear" for nothing!

Its also important that you have the strings at a decent height. The higher, the louder.
 
#17
I like my strings pretty high up, but its not necessary to over-do it, i have seen plenty of amazing jazz bassists play with what I would call medium or medium-low string height and get a massive sound, they just have it in their hands.
 
#18
A lot of what Paul said was a revelation to me. Thanks, Paul.

And on his DVD, Ed Friedland also emphasizes getting as much "meat" as possible from the side of your finger on the string--even to the point that on the E string he's using the knuckle to pull the string, his finger tip misses entirely. Friedland also advocates what he calls "Rufus Ried's Chicken Wing" (whole arm movement) as a way to relatively effortlessly get more power into the pull.
 
#19
Jack Clark said:
A lot of what Paul said was a revelation to me. Thanks, Paul.
Click to expand...

I can't take credit for alotta that, but thanks, Jack. That stuff is common knowledge for most jazz bassists.
I learned to play the bass by digging through record bins looking at pictures of the great jazz bassists on the backs because I couldn't afford a teach. Pics of Red, Ray, OP, Mingus and many more showed me how to do that stuff.
I saw one great shot of Ray Brown where you could actually see his index finger pulling into the board and through the string.....man, I ran home like my ass was on fire. That probably at least allowed me to double my sound.
Now with youtube, this stuff is pretty obvious.
IMO, it helps your swing feel too.....it's kind of like a physical commitment to the music.
 
#20
Paul Warburton said:
I can't take credit for alotta that, but thanks, Jack. That stuff is common knowledge for most jazz bassists.
I learned to play the bass by digging through record bins looking at pictures of the great jazz bassists on the backs because I couldn't afford a teach. Pics of Red, Ray, OP, Mingus and many more showed me how to do that stuff.
I saw one great shot of Ray Brown where you could actually see his index finger pulling into the board and through the string.....man, I ran home like my ass was on fire. That probably at least allowed me to double my sound.
Now with youtube, this stuff is pretty obvious.
IMO, it helps your swing feel too.....it's kind of like a physical commitment to the music.
Click to expand...

Wow, that whole post is right on. I did the same thing. I still do it! I was just watching those Ray lesson vids today, passing them on to a student. They speak volumes. YouTube helps a lot.

I like that whole "dribbling the basketball" analogy.... was that John Goldsby that brought that up here? I think so. Sometimes the motion feels pretty similar to bouncing a b-ball....
 

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