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Underpowered Ashdown/Avatar Rig

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BELLATOR, Apr 3, 2006.


  1. BELLATOR

    BELLATOR

    Sep 7, 2005
    Presently, I have an Ashdown Mag 300H head and an Avatar SB112 cabinet. The head pushes about 300 watts into the 500 watt cab and I was thinking of getting another cab but I'm not sure if it will be too underpowered. The head is around 300 watts but an additional cab would make two cabs in the range of 1000-1200 watts. Is this severely underpowered or would I just have to keep the volume down and watch out for clipping? Also, could I just buy another head and use it together with the Ashdown head? In other words, can I use two heads and two cabinets but one head per cabinet?
     
  2. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS UNDERPOWERING A CABINET!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Fawkes007

    Fawkes007

    Sep 13, 2005
    SF Bay Area
    Don't sugarcoat it, Ox, give it to us straight.
     
  4. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    Add more speakers. you will get more results that way.
     
  5. BELLATOR

    BELLATOR

    Sep 7, 2005
    Wow. Thanks Ox. That was the most unhelpful post I've ever read :rolleyes: . Some people are new to using head/cab rigs. Ever hear of giving a guy a break? Anyway, for the people who actually wanted to give me some constructive advice, are you saying just adding some more cabs will give me what I want? It's just that I've read so many posts by bass players recommending having 1000 watt heads to power 1000+ watt cabs to get the best results. Maybe they're wrong. So if I use a 300 watt head how much wattage will I get with 1000 watt cabs?
     
  6. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    The cabinet wattage does not mean anything as far as amplifier output. Cabinet impedance can change how much power it will recieve from an amp. All you have is a 112? Get yourself a 410, or 412, and you will have much more volume. I have a 540 watt amp that gets me a lot of volume from a 410, but if I add my 4x8, I get more volume, and with that 4 ohm load, my amp actually can operate near it's capacity of 540 watts.
     
  7. If you are using cabs that let the head amp run at its minimum loading (eg you are probably going to be running two 8ohm cabs, a total of 4 ohms) then you will be getting the max power as stated by your amp manufacturer.

    Presently, if you are running just one 8ohm cab, your amp is not putting 300w into it, more like 240W. By adding a second 8ohm cab, bringing the total to 4ohm, you are wringing the full 300w from your amp.

    The actual rating of your speakers in this case is somewhat irrelevant. If your total speaker capacity was 500 watt or 1500watt, you're amp will still be putting 300 watt into them.

    Short answer....by adding another cab, you will find an increase in volume and power, and if you are sensible with how you use you're amp, you should have no problems.
     
  8. I have the MAG300, and I have put that thing up against 1400 combined cab watts before, and it was plenny loud. Your amp and cabs don't really care what wattage rating each other has, just that the ohms aren't overloading the amp. If you grab two 8ohm boxes and hook'em up to the MAG, you'll get all 300w out of it because you're presenting it with a 4ohm load. I go up against a seriously hard hitting drummer, and it keeps up just fine.
    C7
     
  9. Trevorus

    Trevorus

    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    As I said before as well, he only has a 112. You need more speakers than that!
     
  10. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Comparison time: provided your head is up to it, you can gain 3dB by adding an equivalently sensitive cab (that's equivalent to doubling your wattage), and a couple more dB from the head's increased wattage at a lower load.

    In a better world, getting more power AND more cabs gives you the most deciBels of gain. And sometimes it's lighter and smaller to double your power and just feed it into one cab that can deal with it.

    There is no single answer, but you'll get a lot of regurgitated "wisdom" from people who have read stuff but don't actually understand the whys and hows.
     
  11. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Now to apply that to your current situation. I'd suggest another 112 with the same driver - or a 210 loaded with Neos.
     
  12. Yeah a single 12 wont cut the mustard, maybe it's also too close to the floor for him to hear as well.
     
  13. ...and sometimes you'll get answers to questions you didn't really ask from people that know everything there is to know about everything. :rolleyes:
    C7
     
  14. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    So you'd prefer that nobody else might be able to get something useful out of a public forum beyond blind advice. How very enlightened.
     
  15. No, I'd just prefer that we not be insulted based upon your assumptions of what we base our "blind" advice on. Notice I only quoted part of your initial response.
    I guess we're just not as "enlightened" as you are.
    C7
     
  16. Kenny Allyn

    Kenny Allyn

    Mar 25, 2006
    Memphis
    OK Bellator ... here is the deal that I think everyone here is trying to skool you on. you have a 300 watt head (at 4 ohms) that means it is working at it,s maximum into a 4 ohm load ... so you want the amp to see 4 ohms with either using two 8 ohm cabs or the one 4 ohm cab. You say you have a 1x12 cab IF it's an 8 ohm cab you will need two of them to get the MAX power out of your amp. That said ... a 1x12 system is not pushing much air. I could go into a whole lesson on speaker config's but suffice to say you need to get more air moving to get what you seem to want. The 4x10 speaker cab (pick your own make) is the standard most bass players I know now use. Most 4x10s I know of are 8ohm, that said it would still be much louder and move more air than a 2x10 or 1x15 cab rated at 4ohms. With what you already have IF it's an 8ohm cab, get a second one ( I note that the AVATAR web site list the cab as available in 8 or 4 ohm) ... IF it's a 4ohm you can't use two of them with that head. Best bet find a 4x10 cab. If you don't mind the size, an old skool 2x15 cab will really give ya serious bass too.
     
  17. unity bass

    unity bass

    Dec 15, 2003
    Modesto, Ca.
    Yes.
     
  18. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    In my defense, there was no grand all-inclusive WE that I was insulting. But I could have stated it better or just left it out. Hinsight, ahhhh...
     
  19. If it's any help here,I run My ashdown mag400 through My Ampeg 2x15(4ohms) and, it seems like a whole nother BEAST than when I run through My 410(8ohms)
     
  20. BELLATOR

    BELLATOR

    Sep 7, 2005
    Thanks for all the input guys! Your posts helped a lot. Although, I never said I needed more power/volume :) . I have plenty of power/volume right now out of the Avatar SB112 for just practicing alone :). I just want another cabinet when I have to hear myself over our hard-hitting-blast-beat-machine of a drummer \m/. Anyway, thanks again for the input. Prost!
     

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